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    Hardware
      AmigaOS 4  
sickyYour views on current hardware20110129 12:41
I am looking to get myself an Amiga capable of running OS4 very soon, only thing is after being away for some time don't know what's best option for me.

We have several systems out there now, SAM440, SAM460, MicroA1 (second hand) and the newly awaited system X1000 I believe.

I was wondering what the pros and cons of each system are, I will be surfing the web, doing little graphic projects with the likes of Photogenics and Art Effect etc. Might play the odd game with Freespace and Quake being a favorites.

What can I expect in performance, this will only be a hobby machine, just for fun as it were!

Pleas advice a returning old timer :-)
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AntiqueRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 13:33  #1489
@sicky
The same answer as from aw,but still :P


I'd have to go with either a sam460 or the x1000. Depending on your wallet offcourse. :)

I'd stay clear of the micro and sam440ep because of the low gfx memory. And because the 460 and x1000 has pci-e slots for high end gfx cards. Be aware that the 460 does not have 3d support yet. Atleast the radeonHd cards,not sure about the onboard gfx though!

If none of them suits you,then you can go for the sam440 flex,which can be obtained new. It has pci slot for gfx card and can have 1gig of ram. The price ain't that bad either.

kas1eRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 13:50  #1490
@sicky

If it possible to fit to SAM460 PCI sound card and PCI Radeon9250 , then SAM460 will be the best choice for "right now", but not "when its done". If there no possiblity to use Radeon9250 - then you will have no 3D at all (which are major problem, becasue all the normal games use 3d, demos/diskamgs as well, and even some apps use it (like Blender or LodePaint) ). And the same "if" , if there no possiblity to use in such combo PCI audio card, because SAM460 for now not have driver for internal audio at all as i know.

So, if it possible to use radeon9250 + any sound card, then sam460 for sure the best choice for today.

But if its not possible, and you do not want live without 3d , or without sound, or without 3d + without sound, then you can choice some second hand machines like peg2 or a1xe. Both are almost the same by speed, both can be speeduped up to 1.5ghz , but as i know, peg2 a bit better (i have it), while a1 have some HW issues. And you will have of course slower video-ram speed, slower bus-speed at all, and with case with peg2, you will not able to use new RadeonHD cards when you will want to do it.

I dunno also if it will possible to use radeon9250 + sata controller combo in sam460 (not saing about audio, because in such situation you for sure can't fit pci sound card to it).
sickyRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 14:30  #1493
@All

So it's looking like best for cheapness a AM440 flex, for mid price a SAM 460 and for high end Amiga X1000

It would seem there are no sound drivers for 460 on board sound chip is that correct? So would need to use a slot for sound card. Also no 3D drivers whatsoever for any GFX cards that can be used with either 440 or 460 or have I got that bit wrong?


kas1eRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 14:37  #1494
@sicky

You still can put radeon9250 PCI to sam460, and it will works with 2d and 3d. But yep, no sound then. And the problem is you will want to use SATA controller (to use sata hdd , sata dvd) - that also will use PCI slow. And personally i do not know, if it possible to use in sam460 those 2 cards at one time (pretty possible that not, then its pretty bad).
TuxedoRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 14:52  #1495
@sicky

Radeon9250 PCI was fully(2D and 3D) suported on Sam440(I also hope in Sam460)...
AntiqueRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 18:36  #1511
@kas1e

or he can use the onboard sata for a hd,and use sd card for installing os4, or updates. That should work,as you can boot from the sd card.

@tuxedo
Since the pci works for sata controllers it should work for gfx cards aswell,as a solution untill the radeonhd supports 3d aswell.
AntiqueRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 18:37  #1512
@Antique

Seems i cant edit my posts?

Forgot to say that on aw.net the same thread. What has mos to do with this thread???
kas1eRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 19:00  #1514
@Antique
On-board sata port works fine ? If so, then in general i can live without cd-rom (i in general not use it at all to be honest). So, can we put radeon9250-pci + pci-audio card to sam460 ?
AntiqueRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 19:06  #1516
@kas1e

Think it was mentioned as experimental. The driver is supposed to be in devs,but turned of by default. If i don't remember wrong. You'd have to choose either gfx or sound in the pci slot. Not sure if one can use/or its available with soundcards for pci-e????

What was said on acube site about the onboard sata. Not sure how well it works though. :-P

The driver for the onboard SATA port is still experimental. It is not loaded by the kicklayout file but you still can use it (at your own risk). It is located in Devs: and you can use it through Mounter.
kas1eRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 19:10  #1518
@Antique

So in other words, situation with sam460 _right now_ is not good enough. When audio driver for onboard audio will out, and when onboard sata will works fine, then we can put radeon9250-pci, and have fast and fully working HW, with all the drivers and so on.
hansRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 21:12  #1520
@sicky

I was wondering what the pros and cons of each system are, I will be surfing the web, doing little graphic projects with the likes of Photogenics and Art Effect etc. Might play the odd game with Freespace and Quake being a favorites.


IIRC, Freespace and Quake both have software renderers, so the lack of 3D drivers at the moment for Radeon HD cards won't get in the way there.

My advice would be to go with the Sam 460ex, or wait for the A1-X1000. To buy an older model just because certain drivers are not finished yet is very short-sighted. You'll regret it later when the drivers are done for the Sam 460ex and your machine just isn't as good.

They said that the audio driver would be made available on os4depot as soon as it's ready, so you're not going to have to wait for the next AmigaOS update before its done.

I'm using the same reasoning when I recommend that people get Radeon HD 4000 series cards instead of the Radeon X1000 series. Yes, compositing is up and running on the Radeon X1000 series and not with the newer Radeon HD cards. However, you will be better off with a mid to high end Radeon HD later on when the drivers are done. Buying a Radeon X1000 series cards only means that you're going to be spending more later, when you decide to upgrade. Of course, someone who already has a Radeon X1000 card lying around would be better off using that now, and delaying buying a Radeon HD card until later.

Hans
ChrisHRe: Your views on current hardware20110129 22:41  #1527
@hans
However, you will be better off with a mid to high end Radeon HD later on when the drivers are done.

What about 3D support? Are the higher end Radeons likely to be harder to have 3D support for?

I am assuming that once the Gallium 3D port is finished, that we will get 3D drivers for whatever cards it supports. However, I haven't checked which cards it supports. (In fact I can't really tell different ATI cards apart, since I am an NVidia fan.)
hansRe: Your views on current hardware20110130 04:50  #1534
@ChrisH

What about 3D support? Are the higher end Radeons likely to be harder to have 3D support for?


I'm taking 3D support into account in what I said. Gallium 3D drivers exist for both Radeon X1000 series, and the newer Radeon HD series cards. The Radeon X1000 series Gallium driver is currently more advanced, but they are both progressing nicely.

I am assuming that once the Gallium 3D port is finished, that we will get 3D drivers for whatever cards it supports. However, I haven't checked which cards it supports. (In fact I can't really tell different ATI cards apart, since I am an NVidia fan.)


I'm afraid that this assumption doesn't hold. You still need a 2D driver, which rules out nVidia cards (unless someone writes drivers using the reverse engineered Linux drivers as "documentation"), and the Gallium driver needs to work together with the 2D driver. It's not just a simple recompile away.

Hans
328gtsRe: Your views on current hardware20110130 06:26  #1535
tagging along on sicky's tthread :-)

I've got a OS4 hardware dilemna myself now that that the Sam460 is out I'm seriously considering selling my Samflex to a former amigan friend of mine and upgrading to a 460 or x1000 BUT it's all dependent upon whether A-Eon decide to sell the X1000 motherboards separately like ACube do and for how much.

my friend wants my Samflex now but if I sell it to him then I'll be out of a OS4 system until the X1000 is announced!..arghhh what to do

amigo1Re: Your views on current hardware20110130 07:43  #1537
@328gts

sell it! :-)
Ar persuade him to buy the a 440flex, 460 or x1000! :-p
amigo1Re: Your views on current hardware20110130 07:46  #1538
@sicky

So it's looking like best for cheapness a AM440 flex, for mid price a SAM 460 and for high end Amiga X1000

It would seem there are no sound drivers for 460 on board sound chip is that correct? So would need to use a slot for sound card. Also no 3D drivers whatsoever for any GFX cards that can be used with either 440 or 460 or have I got that bit wrong?


be assured all drivers needed for the sam460 will be available. :-)

ChrisHRe: Your views on current hardware20110130 10:37  #1546
@hans
I'm afraid that this assumption doesn't hold. You still need a 2D driver, which rules out nVidia cards

Sorry for not being clear - I was implicitly assuming 2D support (and 3D support wouldn't be much use anyway if you couldn't use Workbench/etc!). Did not mean to imply wanting nVidia support either, was just explaining I don't know one ATI card from another (hence checking Gallium 3D support would be a fair amount of effort for me to understand it).

Anyway, thanks for clearing-up which is the best future-proof card for OS4.
ValiantRe: Your views on current hardware20110130 15:39  #1561
@sicky

I would go for the X1000, and while waiting for it to come out see if you can find a cheap, used, working A1 or Sam that someone is willing to give up.

ValiantRe: Your views on current hardware20110130 16:42  #1568
@328gts

Sell him the Samflex and apply the proceeds to the cost of an Sam460. Then when the X1000 comes out, sell the 460. :-D

sickyRe: Your views on current hardware20110131 18:33  #1629
@All

Thanks for all you views, I think I shall get myself a modest budget SAM 440 flex with a Radeon 9250 GFX card, looks like it will pretty much do all I want for th minute, and if I decide to really get back into it I can upgrade to the X1000 as and when it's available!

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