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      AmigaOS 4  
AntiqueIPv620110123 00:12
Just read that IPv6 has started being used. But will os4 be supporting IPv6 soon? Or will we get into problems with this?? Or are there not any big problems??
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LiveForItRe: IPv620110123 00:48  #1293
@Antique

This is big problem if its not looked at.
LiveForItThis is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110123 01:00  #1294
@LiveForIt

Today we do DNS loopup or domain lookups we get IP4 standard 123.123.123.123, the new format format looks like this 2001:0db8:85a3:08d3:1319:8a2e:0370:7344, no application for AmigaOS supports it, and TCP/IP stack does not support it,

This effects application, because the standard API has changed,

Gethostbyname() is considered already outdated in Windows and Linux systems, the new one is called getnameinfo() and getaddrinfo()

I guess there will be proxy web servers we can use, proxies are not so fun to use and not so safe.

Soon this will be more important then having flash or Java.
chrisRe: IPv620110123 12:44  #1303
Well, the main thing is bsdsocket.library needs updating for IPv6. I mentioned this in a thread on the "old" amigans.net. I would hope the OS4 dev team are already working on this, given that IPv4 adddresses are due to run out this year.

World IPv6 day is 8th June, when various websites will be going dual-IPv4/IPv6 temporarily. You can check connectivity at http://test-ipv6.com



xenicRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110123 16:36  #1310
@LiveForIt
Does the new standard apply to local networks too? Will we need new routers and firewalls?


LiveForItRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110124 03:04  #1326
@xenic

Yes it does, ISP will update there router firmware if needed, so you probably do not need a new router, Linux boxes has been running ip6 and ip4 for years, newer versions of windows support ip6 too.
xenicRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110124 15:08  #1338
@LiveForIt
It's difficult to see how an ISP could be aware of the specific hardware in a router in order to do a firmware update but I don't know anything about network issues. I also notice that periods "." have been replaced by colons ":" in the ip6 addressing schemes. I wonder if this will create problems for Amiga which distinguishes devices with a colon (e.g. HD0: SYS: PRT: etc.).
Even though it seems like OS4 & MOS can survive the change with updated TCP/IP stack, it seems unlikely to me that there will be a new stack for OS3. Could the V6 transition be the end of Internet access with classic hardware? Personally, I plan to get an X1000 when it's released but I certainly want to seen V6 implemented for OS4 before I invest in any more hardware.

LiveForItRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110124 20:06  #1354
@xenic

It's difficult to see how an ISP could be aware of the specific hardware in a router in order to do a firmware update

Not really the ISP is ones delivering modem/router so you can setup your internet connection, this days your router provides a number of services, a http page to configure it, maybe tftp for firmware upgrade, telnet service so it can be configured by simple TCP/IP commands, SNMP so the router can report problems, NAPT so you can assign TCP ports to a dedicated computer. UPNP so ports are signed on applications request on the inside of local network.

I also notice that periods "." have been replaced by colons ":" in the ip6 addressing schemes. I wonder if this will create problems for Amiga which distinguishes devices with a colon (e.g. HD0: SYS: PRT: etc.)

Not really unless you have bad encoding of URL's, the standard for local files is file://

I certainly want to seen V6 implemented for OS4 before I invest in any more hardware

This is totally understandable, because we do not have lot of time, after all its a time bomb waiting to explode.
hansRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110124 21:45  #1355
@LiveForIt

Not really the ISP is ones delivering modem/router so you can setup your internet connection, this days your router provides a number of services, a http page to configure it, maybe tftp for firmware upgrade, telnet service so it can be configured by simple TCP/IP commands, SNMP so the router can report problems, NAPT so you can assign TCP ports to a dedicated computer. UPNP so ports are signed on applications request on the inside of local network.


Here in NZ, the ISP may deliver a modem/router to you, but you own it (i.e., it's not part of the rental). You can also buy your own modem/router if you choose. Over the years the ISPs have provided many different models, of which an unknown amount will actually be upgradable to IPv6 Added to that, I doubt that they could upgrade the firmware of you DSL modem remotely. That's something that needs to be done by logging into the admin pages, and I know that I've disabled remote administration from the internet side. All in all, I highly doubt that ISPs are a position to upgrade the firmware to IPv6 in their clients' homes.

More likely, they will offer enticements to buy new IPv6 modems/routers. Some modem/router manufacturers may provide upgrades to recent models, but I'm expecting owners of older equipment to be out of luck.

While IPv6 is definitely needed, I expect the transition to take years. By that I mean that IPv6 and IPv4 will coexist for a while, and many websites will have both an IPv6 and IPv4 address.

Hans
abalabanRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110125 12:27  #1376
@hans

Maybe LiveForIt lives in a country (like me in France) where the ADSL modem/router is provided to you by the ISP and for which he's also providing firmware updates. For example, here in France *every* ISP is providing a box (called OrangeBox for Orange, Freebox for Free, etc.) which he consider as part of his network. You can see this box as a set-top box because (here) it also gives access to VOIP (using a plain standard phone), IP-TV, PVR, etc. as well as broadband access. As such we regularly have firmware updates, no doubt my ISP (Free) will provide a Firmware update when he will choose to completely switch to IPv6 (we already have had an option to activate IPv6 since at least two years).

IIRC there are special IPv6 addresses that are reserved to carry IPv4 traffic (some sort of tunneling) so that might be the solution ISPs will choose...
chrisRe: IPv620110128 13:20  #1441
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12306573
xenicRe: IPv620110128 16:06  #1446
@chris
A quote from the article at that link:
"If you do not have any plans for IPv6 now you are irresponsible," said Mr Pawlik, "They should have that in place, if they do not have that by now something is going seriously wrong."

Since I'm still on dialup connection, relying on a router to provide a work-around for lack of IPv6 compatability is not going to be a solution. Even if my ISP continues to recognize IPv4 addresses for some time, there will obviously be IP addresses I can't reach when all the IPv4 addresses are used up (this year) and new addresses will need to be IPv6.
mechanicRe: IPv620110128 16:19  #1447
@thread

If a v6 url can be sent to a ISP over a v4 line, translated by the ISP for
v6 IP, then there should be no problem for the average ISP customer.

Maybe??

xenicRe: IPv620110128 18:20  #1453
@mechanic
As far as I know, the curent OS4 TCP/IP stack can't handle v6 addresses. Someone with more expertise might want to comment on that.

jaokimRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110128 19:27  #1455
IIRC there are special IPv6 addresses that are reserved to carry IPv4 traffic (some sort of tunneling) so that might be the solution ISPs will choose...


Yes, I think that the lowest 4 sections (with some predefined prefix) maps to the IPv4 address. This is then used by IPv6 stuff to talk to machines only capable of IPv4.

Something like fe80:0:0:0:0:0:192.168.0.1 is equal to 192.168.0.1.
mechanicRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110128 21:07  #1458
@jaokim
Yeah, something like that.

My thought went more like this.

From my ISP to the modem on my desk is their private network. With v4 they
can have up to 255x255x255x255 customers per server.

When I send them a NAMED URL, not numbers, they translate that to v6 style
IP. The v6 goes out to another server that sends back to my ISP 'whatever'
data, which my ISP puts on their private network and sends to me using v4.

For all I care, or should need to know, is that it allows me to use the service
I'm paying for since I'm not running a web server on their IPnetwork. That would
be different.But,since any web pages I may put on their server are on the Internet side they would have v6 addresses facing the next server at some other v6 ISP.

In other words they could send me the data I request by FTP or Super Carrier
Pigeon, as long as it gets here in proper format.

Or something like that.?????
xenicRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110129 15:51  #1499
@jaokim
Yes, I think that the lowest 4 sections (with some predefined prefix) maps to the IPv4 address. This is then used by IPv6 stuff to talk to machines only capable of IPv4.

I think you missed the point. IPv4 addresses will be used up some time this year. There are only 4294967296 IPv4 adresses. After that only IPv6 addresses will be available. If you request an address after the IPv4 addresses run out, it will need to be an IPv6 address since there are many more IPv6 addresses available.

For example, if there were 100 possible IPv4 addresses and there are 200 IPv6 addresses possible, IPv6 address 150 cannot be mapped to IPv4. It would be like trying to map a "word" (16 bits) to a "byte" (8 bits). You can't map a address 150 into a system that can only contain 100 numbers. If you mapped IPv6 address to IPv4 address 50, it wouldn't work because address 50 will already be assigned to someone else.

If Amigans moves to a newly added server after all the IPv4 addresses have all been assigned, Amigans will have an IPv6 address that cannot be mapped to an IPv4 address.
xenicRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110129 16:08  #1501
@mechanic
Thats not how it works with the current TCP/IP stack. A program gets the IP address from your ISP by using a function like gethostbyname(). The DNS server looks up the name and your program receives an IP address. Then your program connects to the returned IP address. The system you describe could work if the mapping is performed by your router. Since there will be plenty of local addresses available, the router could translate between local addresses and Internet address to forward to your ISP. However, the way it works in the real world is that servers and ISP's assume that you are using a modern MSDOS PC and have IPv6 capability. Their response to IP address problems will be telling you to update your OS or buy a newer PC.

jaokimRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110129 16:40  #1504
I think you missed the point.


Nope. I know we're about to run out of IPv4 addresses. I just corroborated what was said about IPv6-IPv4 mapping. The mapping of course only works one-way.

However, is the problem really only with the TCP/IP stack? Will for instance iBrowse understand IPv6 addresses? Or will they be parsed like names and not IP addresses, and thus cause no problem?

I'm thinking that it would be possible to have som sort of IPv4 proxy (software based), that translates an IPv6 to a local IPv4 addresse. Of course, one cannot keep connections to all IPv6 addresses at the same time, since IPv4 can't hold them all, but I really don't think anyone can hold connections to even all possible IPv4 addresses at once.



mechanicRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110129 18:31  #1510
@xenic

I just clipped this. Perhaps all is not lost. Google ' 6rd '.

6RD trial customers can use their existing computers and cable modems, which may not support IPv6 directly. However, their home gateway devices have been upgraded to one of two different trial devices which support 6RD, enabling IPv6 packets to be encapsulated within IPv4 packets. The encapsulated packets are then sent to a 6RD Border Relay in the providers network which in turn forwards the traffic to the Internet over native IPv6.
amigagrRe: This is more important the having flash or Java.!!!!20110129 19:09  #1517
here is some serius info about ipv6 from ars technica

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2007/03/IPv6.ars/
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/09/there-is-no-plan-b-why-the-ipv4-to-ipv6-transition-will-be-ugly.ars/2

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