Would a UI library be useful ?

I had an idea of a User Interface system that could be useful.

If we had a UI library that attached a programs GUI to an interface style we could have a common theme.

For example a new Word processor program could use the UI library so that the whole UI changes to a set style.

By using the UI library an application could have a menu option of user submitted styles. One could be MS OFFICE/OO.

Once selected the whole word processor could look and act as MS OFFICE, menus the same, keyboard shortcuts etc.

Any app could look and act as any of the given styles. Any missing functionality simply ignored.

Some people may not like this theme and want to stay unique, this is fine. But allowing this feature would help maintain the same theme / shortcuts throughout the system.

It also would be very useful for NON Amiga users to switch to Amiga software and know where all menus / shortcuts etc are/do.

What do people think ?

@angelheart

I had an idea of a User Interface system that could be useful.
Huh, it exists already! It's called GUI. You can find it in Preferences. Did you ever play with it? If you want to create a full theme, you add Fonts, Popup Menu, Palette, and WBPatterns, etc. to your theme drawer with the GUI. AmigaXP and AQUA-OS4 are some nice themes. Ken Lester Jr's AFTA-OS themes can be assembled into the GUI. It mainly changes widow frames, widgets, and gadget colors. How long have you been using OS4 ?
Example of Gem
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11367727@N07/

@Snuffy

You misunderstood.

I dont mean simply to change colour / font of a GUI !

I mean change the position and size of every GUI and menu in any app by reading a config file/script.

I mean for example load a Visual Studio style and Cubic IDE not only LOOKS visually, but all menus, buttons change to similar to Visual Studios layout.

Everything changes, as if you think you were using Visual Studio

All the GUI is loaded, positioned, menu rearranged, keyboard shortcuts, etc dynamically.

The aim is not re-learn how to achieve a task in an application, and thus not re-write manuals if people are already proficient with a certain application on a different platform.

You dont want IT professionals wasting unnecessary time.

@angelheart

Hiya,
I like your thinking, however, wouldn't we then be losing what makes Amiga OS what it is?
If apps can be brought over to AOS, shouldn't they conform to Amiga GUI rules? I understand what you are saying, but we'd just look like any other OS. Plus, what happens if you open up one app from, say, the Windows world and another from Mac OS X? Does the whole GUI then alter each time you switch between them? I reckon that could work out to be even more confusing.

@OldAmigan

Each application will have a seperate GUI layout.

The GUI can still be Amiga way if you wish (as default). The only thing that is different is that each applications GUI positions are NOT hardcoded to the app.

The code is the same, but uses a single file (if it exists) if a different style is required.

Once loaded its fixed in place or set to default, until you go into the menu and change it.

This can also be used to introduce or change Amiga GUI standards too. For example all Print menu the same place.

Print preview toolbar with same icon/pic etc for all progs etc.

An application CAN look like another application, for ppl who know how to use a similar app on a different platform.

This is optional an can be disabled for ppl who like the normal programs GUI layout.

cheers

@angelheart

another idea could be to add custom controls for example a spellchecker.

So when the Wordprocessor template/style is used in any texteditor/wordprocessor the same spell checker menu is available and fuctional.

With this way new menu options could be available for example to show/hide toolbars etc.

It could also be like a datatype system for GUI/apps .

@angelheart

It seems to me that you are asking for a "skin" feature to be part of the OS, rather than unique to every application. It sounds like a good idea, but it would mean that (1) someone would have to write such a thing, which would probably take a dedicated team six months; and (2) every existing application would have to be re-written to take advantage of it.

At the moment there are more urgent things to be done.

@tonyw

I certainly don't want to rain on anyones energy for sure but the idea of this skin or template scenario isn't what I'd like to see...

The world is already full of too many choices and look at the riot it causes... keep AmigaOS more of a dictatorship for at least my life time anyway...

unlimited freedom of choice ultimately leads to despair and discontentment and finally wrong choices because someone always wants to do something different - lol perhaps too deep for the average user

I see this as a good idea. OK so it is just another layer of abstraction but anything that allows you to override element positioning, menu text, icons etc snapshot them into place and possibly contribute a configuration library would be a welcome advance. Incidentally ... no, July. Nothing to do with AmigaOS but I've been working on a similar concept for something completely different.

Would it remain AmigaOS? Well that always strikes me as a whimsical argument and highly subjective. We already have advances and changes in AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS not to mention BOOPSI coming along and thence ClassAct then Reaction and not to forget MUI.

The programmer defines their GUI through this method, and hands over the rendering to something else. They just recieve events and update individual controls. They also provide one (or more) default profiles containing the default locale, icons, menus, positions etc. That way you could always restore.

As has been pointed out much of this has already been done. So, perhaps something for all Amiga OS and a-like developers to spec out and work on together - if they are interested and have time?

The problem is of course fish. Frying, and a lack of oil.

@angelheart

I must admit, using Firefox as an example, it's nice to have it look familiar in Windows, Mac OS X and Linux and the basic skin and the relevant gadgets are as the relevant OS decides but the menus etc, are always (I think) the same. Is this what you mean?

...so the official Style Guide would be "do whatever you want"? I do not like that idea - especially after working some years in the field of GUI design (industrial applications).
In the end of the day its a matter of time and money ->
What is faster: fiddling around with each app to "personalisize" it to your taste or learning a system wide, consistent GUI concept. For me the latter is more efficient (and, wow, i work really with A LOT of different systems...). I really do not have the time to configure me and my systems to death. Of course it would be much easier if all systems behave like AmigaOS...

@angelheart
I suspect that your idea is basically already implemented with the Feelin' GUI system, which allows the GUI to be defined in an XML file. Change the XML file, and the apps will have a different GUI

@angelheart

#3
You misunderstood.
Not really. It's sounds like you're talking about - 'Extreme-Make-Over-Gui' !
You're over emphazing design/looks for everything in the OS. I think that's a bit extreme and wasteful.
#11
Of course it would be much easier if all systems behave like AmigaOS... - cha05e90
There you go! Can I hug your Amiga...

@angelheart

Don't get downhearted, at the end of the day, AmigaOS is certainly about being customizable if nothing else.
If you can come up with a UI. library that can allow a users experience to work as you've said as another Preference file or however you envision it, good on you.
It's another Theme really.

"...so the official Style Guide would be "do whatever you want"? I do not like that idea - especially after working some years in the field of GUI design (industrial applications)"

Errr... no.

@tonyw

Quote:

1) It was written from 1992, it's MUI. MUI can be skinned, each application can have its skin;
2) All MUI applications take advance from it;
3) MUI has all modern features of a GUI like D&D, and you can have menu wherever you want:

@ShInKurO

Are you saying that I can change all the menu options in an MUI application, the order of menus, and even what menu items are called in a MUI application from the prefs panel?

@DaveP
Quote:

No I mean menu bar position can be into window program like on Windows.
Btw you can easely implement something of this with MUI, and control it from prefs of your program. In any case it wouldn't be good because Amiga Interface Style Guide tells you how should be the order of standard menu like "File", "Edit" and "Prefs" menus so you would have a not standard application, even if you could leave this choice to user...

@ShInKurO

Why would it "not be good"?

Picture the scenario, someone gets sat down in front of a word processor on the Amiga that happens to have at least all the function they are used to using on their MicroSoft Word package.

We have a choice. We either say "suck it up" to the user, and they have to learn where everything is on this package (and bitch about it). Or the IT manager downloads the "Word" skin, and they are up and running straight away (more or less).

Now I realise its laughable to concieve that anyone would bother using Amiga based stuff over Windows or Linux based stuff for this kind of task, but the style guide is a useful set of limits for allowing everything to keep a consistent "Amiga" look and feel.

This can be the default behaviour, I don't think anyone is arguing that point, I think what is being mooted is a little freedom to deviate from that starting point, in a reusable way, by providing a library that does most of the heavy lifting for the programmer, and provides a consistent means of handling preferences, sharing and themes for the end user.

@DaveP

Please open Microsoft Word on MacOSX and tell me if first menu which you read is the same of first menu which you have on Windows. First menu of Windows is the second one into OSX version, and reason is UI style guide respect...