I have read this news from Amiganews: http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2021-07-00005-EN.html It is true other AmigaOS? and with so OS for Amiga systems we will destroy the the niche of Amiga, because for new users, the big question what Amiga OS does install? and if it is true for what machines, Sams too and the other PPC machines like Macs?
Amigaos4 development is crawling. Those updates over AmiUpdate are only offered to suggest solid continued development.
Relation between Ben H and a-eon is allegedly not very friendly.
The validity of Amiga OS4 related contracts are subject to lawsuits. So the future is uncertain.
AmigaKit said multiple times that they do not want their coding effort bases on someone else code base due to these kind of legal proceedings.
If you nevertheless want to continue the Enhancer project instead of waiting (years) for the outcome of the lawsuits, you have three options: 1. Hope that Ben H wins and somehow transforms into a reliable business partner with a serious investment plan to move OS4 forward 2. Hope that Ben H loses and that Amiga OS4 ends up in the hands of a reliable business partner. 3. Take a step back and replace the uncertain (legal pov) OS4 foundation with your own solid foundation. And continue the effort of integrated enhancements without being held back by lack of progress by Hyperion and those legal proceedings.
Given the amiga history, only option three seems a viable option.
So while it seems redundant to reimplement OS4 commands, it's needed to ensure the future of the Enhancer project.
I understand that some users are not happy with this undertaking. But it will take a long time before all components of OS4 are replaced. If that's the goal at all. The real goal might be to create a minimum viable software image which is fully owned by a-eon and that can be ported to certain hardware without involvement of Hyperion. The missing pieces to complement a full OS4 installation are simply copied over from an amigaos4 classic cd. And nobody forces you to use Enhancer anyways. OS4 works just fine without it. Just be happy with OS4 upd2 and hope that the situation at Hyperion will improve in the coming decade.
Having said that, I too would have liked that it would have been a joined effort by all parties involved and that everyone is getting along just fine. But considering what has happened in the last decades, I'm afraid that this train left the station a long time ago.
There are already perfectly viable AmigaOS alternatives out there for those that don't mind not using the real one:
AROS MorphOS
Neither of them are ofc interesting to me personally, nor will this new one be. Because that is all it will ever be to me, "just another one". And this forum will not be turned into an alt AmigaOS-ish website.
So you can only add and not replace or reimplement?
- Modern workbench replacement which builds upon warp2D and warp3dnova is a no-go
-graphics.library replacement which adds modern 2D capabilities, multi-monitor support and removes the 256MB limit is a no-go
-USB stack replacement which adds USB3 support and isochronous transfer profile for usb audio cards is a no-go.
-ethernet stack replacement with a modern internal stucture which enables DMA assisted transfer speed improvements and an infrastructure for proper Wifi support is a no-go.
-AHI replacement which removes a lot of limitations and adds bitstreaming is a no-go
- General reimplementation of os4 components which simply add SMT/ multicore / co-processor core support (whatever the implementarion and when available) to speed up the system is a no-go
- dos replacement to allow better and multi-core disk handling to unleash the power of NVMe is a no-go
All of the above has to be done by Hyperion. Because when all of the above is done by a-eon, it's a new OS? Afterall, what's left of OS4 anyways when all of the above are replaced?
And isn't it a new os anyways since the heart if the system, the kernel, is developed by someone else than Hyperion?
There are already perfectly viable AmigaOS alternatives out there for those that don't mind not using the real one:
AROS MorphOS
Neither of them are ofc interesting to me personally, nor will this new one be. Because that is all it will ever be to me, "just another one". And this forum will not be turned into an alt AmigaOS-ish website.
100% right. I think Leaman is crazy if he thinks people buy his system. 95% of Amigaos users with whom I talked to A-Eon OS is negative. Who wanted an alternative for a long time ago went to Morpos or Aros on low price hardware. At Amigaos 4, stay only who want to have 100% original Amigaos and no counterfeits are not interested.
100% right. I think Leaman is crazy if he thinks people buy his system. 95% of Amigaos users with whom I talked to A-Eon OS is negative. Who wanted an alternative for a long time ago went to Morpos or Aros on low price hardware. At Amigaos 4, stay only who want to have 100% original Amigaos and no counterfeits are not interested.
After my recently, rather spirited posts, this may come as a surprise, but I think folks may be over-reacting a tad here. So long as people can install what they want from Enhancer or its follow-ons, this isn't a big deal.
Think about it. If Hyperion released a version of AmigaOS which had things like ClipViewer or MultiEdit, RadeonRX support, video acceleration, and so forth, we would be jumping for joy. No, I see no point in replacing Reaction gadgets that work well or command-line utilities, but I don't have to use them if I don't want.
I think A-EON is investing in the wrong things, but they have their own strategy. As a customer if I like the end-result, I'll buy it. If I don't, then I won't. I'll never consider any alternative to AmigaOS 4, since that's what I like; but I don't mind installing additional software from elsewhere if it 'enhances' the experience.
My big hope is that Matthew and Trevor will be able to clear the air on their longer-term plans at Amiwest this year. A couple of presentations, a few beers, and we're all family again. That's what we need right now.
-- eliyahu
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."
@geennaam All the bullets you mentioned above are exceptional features and I would be glad to use them on my system. Have you seen any of them working right now or beta tested them? If not, then they are just wishes (or plan) that based on how long the Enhancer takes to be developed, it might take ages.
Until they are released, I would hold a small basket.
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All of the above has to be done by Hyperion. Because when all of the above is done by a-eon, it's a new OS? Afterall, what's left of OS4 anyways when all of the above are replaced?
It depends on how people have access to that, and how this is marketed. If I am able to buy the above features I would like separately, I would be more than happy to do it. If I have to pay 200€ to buy the whole package, I might don't buy it. But can you assure me that they won't put restriction on these implementation to not be able to work under official AmigaOS 4 at any time in the future?
Also, if the new package is looking exactly like AmigaOS 4, works exactly like AmigaOS 4 and is marketed like AmigaOS 4, then I won't be happy with that. Considering the history of how AmigaKit registers trademarks just to establish their position to the market, trying to shut down everything else, I am extremely skeptical on the reasons this company does what they do.
How are you sure that they are going to continue the development of this package? Right now, inside the latest Enhancer there are already obsolete components, which they sell, but they can't update or fix bugs. Can you assure anyone that they are going to support the development of the new package for a long time?
Finally, what makes me also skeptical is that they behave like Hyperion is dead. If anyone has any news items I missed, please post it on this website, because so far I haven't seen something like that. At the end is this something that is happening or just a wishful thinking?
All the bullets you mentioned above are exceptional features and I would be glad to use them on my system. Have you seen any of them working right now or beta tested them? If not, then they are just wishes (or plan) that based on how long the Enhancer takes to be developed, it might take ages.
It's not relevent whether those features are in development or not.
The question was when we come to the point when the OS4 purist say that we're now dealing with an alternative OS.
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It depends on how people have access to that, and how this is marketed. If I am able to buy the above features I would like separately, I would be more than happy to do it.
And what if those features needs joined developement on other components to offer a better user experience? And the other team is not existing/crawling/has different priorities? Just sit on your hands? Settle for less? It's ultimately up to a-eon how they want to do it and it's up to you if you want to buy it. What if those features that you like depends on other parts of enhancer which you don't like? In my opinion you're out of luck. Accept it or miss out on it. There's no right to cherry picking.
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Also, if the new package is looking exactly like AmigaOS 4, works exactly like AmigaOS 4 and is marketed like AmigaOS 4, then I won't be happy with that. Considering the history of how AmigaKit registers trademarks just to establish their position to the market, trying to shut down everything else, I am extremely skeptical on the reasons this company does what they do.
Personally I am not sensitive to a discussion about context over result. If this was really an issue to the OS4 purists then they should have dropped support for Hyperion a long time ago. They're not really an example of business ethics.
If business ethics is what you are looking for then you should look beyond the amiga community. Because you'll not find it here.
And let's be honest here. If a-eon would pay an X amount of money to Hyperion to get an "approved and endorsed by Hyperion" stamp on their bootable enhancer image in return then the OS4 purist would be cheering over the same result.
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How are you sure that they are going to continue the development of this package? Right now, inside the latest Enhancer there are already obsolete components, which they sell, but they can't update or fix bugs. Can you assure anyone that they are going to support the development of the new package for a long time?
You're proving the point of a-eon here. No sources, licensed binaries and code subject to lawsuits means uncertainty for the future. Better take time to reimplement necessary components and own the sources. If they would have access to the sources of AmiDVD, the issue on >upd6 would have been fixed by now.
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Finally, what makes me also skeptical is that they behave like Hyperion is dead. If anyone has any news items I missed, please post it on this website, because so far I haven't seen something like that. At the end is this something that is happening or just a wishful thinking?
By this definition, ITEC isn't dead as well. And haven't they too been acting like Amiga Inc is dead by trying to register amiga trademarks in violation of the settlement agreement?
I've looked at the release notes of final update 2 (3 years development) and there are mainly buxfixes. The first bullet (often the most important one) was about the kernel. So not developed by Hyperion. Actual innovation (Radeon drivers, warp3dnova, opengles, kernel work) is *not* coming from Hyperion.
Of course it would be nice if Hyperion is alive and kicking. Development is thriving. And 4.2 with all promised features is around the corner. But I don't think that there's anyone who believes in that fairytale anymore.
So if progress of OS4 has to come from someone else than Hyperion then so be it. If they think that it serves a purpose to have such an image bootable for whatever reason than why should I care? For me it's not about politics but about the end result.
You're proving the point of a-eon here. No sources, licensed binaries and code subject to lawsuits means uncertainty for the future. Better take time to reimplement necessary components and own the sources. If they would have access to the sources of AmiDVD, the issue on >upd6 would have been fixed by now.
IMO, to assure the future of the OS is not reimplementing apps and components by a company and keep them closed, behind trademarks and licenses. Because what is happening now with AmigaOS, will happen with the new package as well. The only assurance for that is to open source them, but I understand why they don't do it.
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So if progress of OS4 has to come from someone else than Hyperion then so be it.
I agree with you. So be it. We will see what the future will bring us. I would prefer though these companies to work together than compete over the same project. It seems they are not capable to cooperate and support each other, unfortunately. So be it. And the community gets smaller and smaller every year. So be it.
IMO, to assure the future of the OS is not reimplementing apps and components by a company and keep them closed, behind trademarks and licenses. Because what is happening now with AmigaOS, will happen with the new package as well. The only assurance for that is to open source them, but I understand why they don't do it.
Open source.... The os4 is divided over to what extend os4 is allowed to be changed by anyone other than Hyperion.
The OS4 community is divided over this bootable "something".
The OS4 community is divided about how someone else is allowed to spend *their* money.
Now imagine all the different opinions when it's open source and people are actually empowered to transform their opinion in a binary with the same name <shiver>. The amiga community is not mature enough for open source. Or maybe too mature if you know what I mean.
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I agree with you. So be it. We will see what the future will bring us. I would prefer though these companies to work together than compete over the same project. It seems they are not capable to cooperate and support each other, unfortunately. So be it. And the community gets smaller and smaller every year. So be it.
Indeed. If OS4 purist rather like to wait for anything to happen at Hyperion. So be it. If Ben H is not able to run a business with paid developers but we wait for them regardsless in the hope that something happens. So be it. If OS4 purist denounce the effort from people investing time and money. And divide the community between purists and progression. So be it.
The issue is not that nothing is happening. The issue is the purists only accept something to happen from Hyperion. It's like sitting in front of a closed door for years while hoping that someone might walk through it some day with good news. While the good news is happening behind you.
I'm not too big on the replacement utilities from enhancer, such as xdock and multiviewer, but if I'm able to use the vanilla OS4 utilities then sure I'm game.
Don't knock it till you tried it () , it's not that OS4 is going anywhere soon.
Seems to be made by most of the OS4 guys anyway? If the stuff with Ben is sorted then maybe they'll christen it to OS4.2
So you can only add and not replace or reimplement?
- Modern workbench replacement which builds upon warp2D and warp3dnova is a no-go
-graphics.library replacement which adds modern 2D capabilities, multi-monitor support and removes the 256MB limit is a no-go
-USB stack replacement which adds USB3 support and isochronous transfer profile for usb audio cards is a no-go.
-ethernet stack replacement with a modern internal stucture which enables DMA assisted transfer speed improvements and an infrastructure for proper Wifi support is a no-go.
-AHI replacement which removes a lot of limitations and adds bitstreaming is a no-go
- General reimplementation of os4 components which simply add SMT/ multicore / co-processor core support (whatever the implementarion and when available) to speed up the system is a no-go
- dos replacement to allow better and multi-core disk handling to unleash the power of NVMe is a no-go
I can't help thinking that at least some of these would be better implemented using the OS library patching system, rather than doing a wholesale replacement of components. Better for compatibility and less work.
Anyway, there's no sign of anything this interesting, just some re-implemented commands which - outside the scope of replacing the OS - seem completely pointless.
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