Any way to emulate 3D from x86 or Apple Silicon?

So, never mind the huge thread, "what's the fastest way to emulate os4.1FE today?" I want to know if there is ANY way to emulate OS41.FE today with the GPU components required such that I can cross-compile and test 3D graphics stuff?

Doesn't have to be fast, a couple FPS will do at this stage, I just want to know if something works, fails or outright crashes. At the moment, I don't believe that Qemu emulating Pegasos2 and SM501 satisfies the requirements for 3D at all. I'm sure I've read that WinUAE emulating Voodoo3 can do 3D but I'm damned if I can get the Voodoo3 board recognised. OS4 will boot to a PAL screen mode and the board isn't listed.

If it matters, I'm referring here to M1 Mac. I have other machines, but the point is to develop on a laptop. Hopefully soon I will have real OS4 hardware but even then I'm being told I'd be mad not to cross-compile. M1 Mac will run Win-UAE under Wine, either via Flowerpot or manually. I don't believe FS-UAE will run OS4 on M1 yet.

Final point, as I'm sure someone will probably ask. Which 3D stuff do I want to run? Honestly, I'm confused as hell by all the different components and what you need to be able to do what. Any graphics coding I ever did so far was either SDL1 or Raylib. So all this OpenGL, MiniGL, OpenGLES, Warp, WarpNova, WarpSuperDuperNova++ is all just a complete mystery. Right now, I'm trying to test GLFW by afxgroup. On qemu with Radeon HD driver 3.x on R270x the demo "triangle_opengles2" runs, everything else crashes. Obviously everything crashes on Qemu with SM501.

@MartinW
Currently WinUAE is much faster in practical terms than qemu.
But much faster.
But you will hardly be able to emulate it via WinUAE with M1.
@Maijestro will definitely help you understand why.

With the latest versions of qemu now odyssey is very slow compared to previous versions.
Before the videos I was smooth without using YT.rexx e.g.
Now they are slow.

Surely qemu will be faster in the future.
Because Toni has never been interested in 4.1 and his was just an experiment.

As mentioned several times with Voodoo3 runs 70% between demo games etc.

qemu will certainly be able to do better in the future.

But currently WinUAE is much faster.
The version with uaegfx drivers is the fastest.
The Voodoo version is the most compatible with minigl etc.

Hopefully, more developers will join the qemu project

@MartinW
Quote:Warp3D is only available on AmigaOS, but OpenGL is available on nearly any system. MiniGL and OpenGLES (used on embedded systems, smartphones, etc.) are limited implementations of it only supporting a few parts of it.
If you are new to 3D programming the easiest way may be to implement something using OpenGL or OpenGLES, or a cross-platform library using OpenGL like SDL, on your preferred OS and later port it to AmigaOS. Just don't use features from the newest OpenGL versions but only of older versions supported by the AmigaOS port if you want to do it that way.

@joerg

I already have a project that I want to bring over. It was originally prototyped on SDL1 but very, very early on moved to SDL2 and not long after Raylib.

@white

I'm not really sure you understood the point of my question. It's 100% not about speed here (although more speed = more good, of course!), it's about testing 3D code. Right now, I don't have any means to do so.

I really have zero interest in how well Odyssey runs (for the record it runs pretty damn fine on M1 Mac / Qemu / SM501) and I can't imagine I will even have any interest in YouTube when I have an X5000. I have a perfectly good 50" TV in the living room for that. Although clicking the odd link that takes me to YouTube while doing stuff on Amiga would be useful for sure.

[edit]
Quote:

This sounds like what I need for now. Can someone share a working config file with me please?

@MartinW

it seems to me that there are problems with M1
therefore @Maijestro
thought about qemu, surely he will be able to explain the reasons as mentioned above.
Now I don't remember what problems @Maijestro had encountered.

here quake 3 arena voodoo3 minigl for e.g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4z_Hssdzvs

@MartinW

Yes, voodoo3 works with QEMU and pegasos2.of. Haven't tried it with bboot.
But the voodoo3 is limited to 16bit 3d only. And works only with warp3d and minigl.

@geennaam

That's probably a good start - I had no idea Voodoo3 on Qemu Pegasos2 was an option, I can give that a try.

@white, what about Voodo3 on Win-UAE? is that OK? Let me worry about Mac and M1. Pretend I'm on Windows for now

@MartinW
Quote:It's not, geennaam is using a real Voodoo3 PCI gfx card with pass-trough.
WinUAE supports emulating a Voodoo3, QEmu doesn't.

deleted double post

@joerg

Oh, yeah - that's not an option on my laptop

@MartinW

I don't understand the question then

what do you need how to setup winuae+voodoo3 ?

How to get it to work?

I can add Voodoo3 to the Mediator and it all looks fine in the config but when I boot into OS4 it boots into a PAL mode with no Voodoo modes in the screen mode prefs. I don't know how to get OS4 to recognise the Voodoo3 card. "3dfxVoodoo" is in the Kickstarts (or whatever the proper name is)

i use g-rex + voodoo
because it doesn't need extra memory.
while mediator needs extra ram
is using mediator there are problems with audio under some circumstances.

g-rex 1gb ram (max)
mediator 768mb ram (max)
mediator 4000 mk2 (full PCI DMA)

perhaps using mediator you are unable to allocate the ram you need and consequently the voodoo card is not recognized or it blocks the system

I think when I tried g-rex it wouldn't even boot.

what would solve all of this is if someone would share a config file from a working setup

Ah, so the question is if there is a emulated gfx card that will give you 3D support.

Short answer is: no.
Long answer is: Wazp3D. Wazp3D will software emulate warp3d. No nova though.

@MartinW

g-rex+voodoo

you have to change the paths and choose your network card
(pci 8029)


you will need the g-rex floppy included in the 4.1 classic (write protect it otherwise it will overwrite the firmware)
and to add after updates of update 1&2
at startup-sequence:
c:bootloader commandline="g-rex norampager"

https://tinyurl.com/2p9rrr86

@MartinWQuote:

I also wanted to briefly share my experience with my Mac M1 and WinUae. Short....es is too slow

With WinUae I had started to use AmigaOs4.1, for that I use CrossOver (Wine) I had to realize very fast that WinUae translated by Winne is very slow, neither with uaegfx nor with the Voodoo 3 emulation. It could only be slow because 2 emulations have taken place Wine/WinUae.

On Windows, WinUae with Voodoo3 is quite usable @white tested it completely. Quake3 Arena ran very well also other things that use MiniGL/Warp3d run with it. WinUae is slower than Qemu in raw CPU performance, but offers simple 3d acceleration.

Qemu and sm502 is a dead end, this driver is limited to 16 bit and not able to provide 3d acceleration, this GFX chip does not provide it out of the box.

If you wanted you could use the Voodoo emulation for Qemu, but no one has agreed to do that yet. The whole Voodoo stuff is already OpenSource.

Right, so that just confirms what we've established. WinUAE with Voodoo3 through Wine is probably the way to go.

I don't care if it's slow. I mean, it would be good if the desktop is reasonable. But if my tests run at 2fps, that's fine, it allows me to know it's working. I don't care for Quake 3 Arena at a decent FPS. I just need to be able to see if my code tests run at all.

So, what I need then is to fix my setup. Because Voodoo3 on WinUAE does not work for me.

I think that's the end of the thread really. I think we've established that there is no other means of testing 3D stuff under emulation for OS4 beyond what I already know. Thanks for the clarification.

@white

Bingo!

Thank you - I will go through it this evening.

@MartinW