AmigaOS and web browsing in 2013

@broadblues

WebKit is really huge and quite painful to merge, considering the project activity (>10000 commits in a couple months, many API changes, regressions with bigendian architectures and so on...). If i want to do actual work on it, given my spare time, i really can't afford sync'ing x repositories everytime i merge WebKit. So, future versions will come as a tarball of the actual state, and that's it.

And your comparison with Aweb is really not appropriate, considering the difference in size and complexity of these two projects.

@kas1e

- Should i state once again that you actually got my curl changes about multithreading? If you can't make it work, it's not my fault.

- The cairo changes are about adding:
# include <proto/exec.h>
typedef struct SignalSemaphore cairo_mutex_impl_t;
# define CAIRO_MUTEX_IMPL_MORPHOS 1
# define CAIRO_MUTEX_IMPL_LOCK(mutex) ObtainSemaphore(&(mutex))
# define CAIRO_MUTEX_IMPL_UNLOCK(mutex) ReleaseSemaphore(&(mutex))
# define CAIRO_MUTEX_IMPL_INIT(mutex) InitSemaphore(&(mutex))
# define CAIRO_MUTEX_IMPL_NIL_INITIALIZER {}
# define CAIRO_MUTEX_IMPL_FINI(mutex) CAIRO_MUTEX_IMPL_NOOP

- Pixman doesn't have any meaningful change except altivec detection. Shall i write the OS4 specific function for you (hint: it already exists in projects like MPlayer/ffmpeg)?

- Fontconfig is mostly about amiga paths, and this progress callback is about adding 2 lines of code. I also gave you that code once.

- OpenSSL already exists for OS4, so it shouldn't be too hard to get it. I just hope the random routine doesn't always returns 4 there... :)

- ICU is just horribly painful because of its build process, and i can't be bothered to deal with it once more, i just hate it... :) I even didn't make the latest port of it on MorphOS, so i can't give it either. But there's nothing mysterious about it, it's just about fiddling with the build process.

- Odyssey defines the plugin architecture (plugins in Odyssey are shared amiga libraries), so you'll be able to write plugins if you want. I just don't plan to release swfdec because:
- it has tons of deps as well (glib for a start),
- it's outdated (Flash 8 with a couple of Flash 9 extensions, but not enough)
- it's a plugin, it's really out of the scope of *Odyssey browser*.

- The "user experience" phrase is here to avoid the chaotic fiasco that could be seen in other projects. It's actually not very restrictive... If one decides to tear Odyssey apart and make a mess out of it, well, he can still do so, but i certainly won't give my support and newer version in that case. I think it's rather understandable...

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Yes, this project changes A LOT, welcome to the club. But to compile it, "make" is a good start... And defaut options are set properly (at least in current version, i don't remember if it was the case in 1.9).

As a sidenote, i think there are double standards here.. I don't remember there was any criticism against the much more restrictive TimberWolf bounty, for example. Weird?

@eliyahu Quote:
I prefer to not jump to the worst conclusion, and instead try to assume that Fab has genuine reasons for his stated requirements.

For example, he may just be trying to minimise the amount of work he has to do to support the OS4/AROS ports of Odyssey, given that he presumably doesn't have enough spare time as it is (I know I don't). Unfortunately I'm not a mind reader, so I can only speculate.

However, I don't see why some of Kas1e's requests would cause any real difficulty for Fab... And given the size of the bounty being asked for, I'd have thought some minor additional work would have been acceptable. (But I've never dealt with a project the size & complexity of Odyssey, so don't put too much weight on what I think.)

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thanks for the videos but can you merge the two instead of having both AOS & MOS separately ?

@328gts

i succesfull have on Mos Owb the video running at 360p they run good too on my Pegasos 2, but i have to spoof as chrome 25 and use the flash player 2.0 by fab.
The video before was using the Html5 video player and spoof as Ipad.

This is the result of My Pegasos2 1266 mhz with 9000pro Os 4.1.6 and smTube Qt (great Guillaume) 460p video play 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sxgyoMJv6Y


About merging the video isnt impossible because limited space of youtube for user files.

@Fab
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Ofcourse you would not want to merger with x separate repositories, you would run one central repository with code that compiles for all three (or how ever many) flavours.

@fab

Donated 50$,

Hoping the best for this project.

Thanks Fab to accept to sell your sources and thanks to the OS4 volunteers to try to port them ( another bounty for their "salary" ? )

Seriously hoping that Qt5 will give us a very modern browser too, one day...

Good luck and good port !

@Fab
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I am not about curl only, and not about that you privately give me already. I am about release it to public, just "curlXXXX_mos.tgz", so anyone will use it for anything else, and trying to port it to whatever they want. I will have no needs to say to anyone "i have sources from fab, but i do not know if i can send them to you", as they will be public, and on your page.

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Its fault of roadshow, as i say once again and all the time everywhere too (and olaf noted about of course , half of year ago).

Curl just as example of 3d party open source libs, which better to open the same as all others : just in main archive some directory like "3d party open source libs", in which "CurlXXXX_mos.tgz", "fontconfig_xxxx_mos.tgz", "pixman_xxxx_mos.tgz" , "cairo_xxxx_mos.tgz". Why anyone should worry about those sucking "amiga native patches" in fontconfig, if you already deal with it ? Why give porters unnecessary work (even trivial one) ?

Does not matter how all of them easy or hard or trivial or anything. Its just will be better to have it all from you one time, in one archive or whatever, so no one will need to ask you about details, no one will need to do those trivial things for yourself.

I.e. point is to put everything what have any single change in open source libraries open for everyone, publicaly, without sending them privately or anything like that.

I mean, pure classic opening of everything where changes have place. Just pack it all and upload as well later, so no one will have needs to ask you about "what and how you change", "what callback and where and why". I am not about me now, i am about any other person who will want try to port it later, and those persons for sure have no interest to contact with you, me, anyone else, they will want to work just on their own , without needs to steam for questions.

Imho its all "trivial" and understandable, the more you open, the less works for everyone later.

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Of course there is no dbl-standards. You know me, and i have no such crap in head. Its just i know on os4 we have no free skilled programmers, they all busy. And pretty possible its again will be me with Deniil who will do port, and i want to sort everything as possible, and have everything as possible open, so i will have no needs to cry on irc "hey fab, can you help me with that, and that".

Besides, TW bounty was not to open source it, but to have working port (why sources of working port still not open and bounty requirements not done, its another story). While with odyssey, its only open current branch , and then, adaptation, porting and rewriting (html5 player) need it, which is also some works and time. If you can make aos4/aros port yourself, then imho 10.000$ or even 12.000$ can be ok and realistic. I will happy donate 200$ right now if you will do those ports yourself.

In other words, plz, pack later everything and release. Without saying how trivial is it. Not for me, but for everyone. That the point.

@All
I also write mail to Trevor, in hope he will support that bounty: because as i see on forums, many ppls use their x1000 because of odyssey, so its kind of directly related and will be logical to bring some good support to such bounty :)

@zzd10h

Qtweb is a good browser too, with qt5 and 4.2 I'm sure it will be the best browser on amigaos, It is more compatible compared with muiowb with some sites ... For sure the new version(qt5) will fix the java script incompatibility (crash) :)

@Kas1e
Im sure trevor donations Will come soon ;)

@All
I read on amiga-ng.org, that french ppls will make a proper port (which will be better than done by me and Deniil). So, there is better chance now to have bug-free version with all the new stuff.

@Fab
Imho you can skip then all suggestions about 3d party libs, as i assume those who will do port to os4 can do all that trivial stuff with no probs later.

26% already done :)

@kas1e

??

Kas1le : Not French people. Me. Only me. I gave my opinion since I'm in a country with freedom of speech.

My French friends may think differently.

Maybe now you know how to optimize your ports, maybe now you know that you have to release a finished product (Mplayer doesn't make use of overlay correctly and MUI-OWB, even compared to 1.9 on MorphOS, is far from being as perfect).

You games ports were also really slow with no optimizations.

But maybe I'm wrong, maybe you make a far better work today (and if yes, maybe I'll send you AGAIN 150 Euros to thank you for your work).

And maybe you'll change also your arrogant behaviour (but I may dream for this particular point).

BTW : I asked for a French porter since Fab is French (and since we all know each other) because that could ease exchanges when needed.

And a final note : I find it weird to mail someone to ask him money because some people have bought a product. I guess Trevor is already aware of this bounty and I do no think that he needs anyone to tell him what to do, does he ?

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+1

@kas1e
@K-L
every one can do his own port, have the sources will be this too 8)
The user will select the best browser for their use ...
Example there are people who like MuiOwb and people who like Owb...
All devs can do the best and in all the case make a port working/no working/half working/ is a good result in any case. Please people dont judge and dont start a fight because amiga scene is full of stupid war a dev war will be a failure from the beginning.
A Devs challege (not fight/war)will be a good things 8)

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Some one can understand that everyone (me too) some times write something wrong because our language is totally different from english? and some times we write english but think in our national language and this start a missunderstanding?.
Please stop this stupid thing, there are more important things to do and think about.

@tlosm

I did only express my opinion on a French site. Kas1e brought this discussion right here, not me.

For all the rest, you're totally right

@K-L

i dont know, probably he missunderstanding or get offended by something ... in all the way is better stop this and Pace & Love to all :-*

@K-L

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Sense of superiority of the West ?
The europe countries are the last to be able to give lessons and the cold war propaganda is finished you know ?

For the rest i quoted tlosm ..

I hope this thread doesn't turn into Kas1e bashing (nor Fab bashing).

I see everyone here has is trying to achieve the best outcome possible, but they have different viewpoints, different values, different abilities & resources, and their native language often isn't English (which can lead to misunderstandings).

If someone wants to criticise someone else's behaviour, then please do it elsewhere (preferably in private). I'd be happy to explain in private why I disagree with what someone unwisely said about Kas1e.

@K-L
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No i do not know. Maybe you will release that "finished product" ? Or your friends maybe ? Are you release finished products already so you can teach anyone ? Are you port anything interesting or write any program so you can teach how to do things ?

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Pizdec.. Even if it works for me in overlay mode, go and port mplayer to "use overlay correctly", show us how to do finished products. Show us your skills. Then i will be found all possible bugs in it, and throw at you.

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Go with your friends and make it perfect. Then, i will sit on my ass and teach you about bugs, about what should be and should't be done in ports. I will send you and those friends 300$ if you will do proper port. I am sure other ones also will donate you some.

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Go and port all of them : make it fast, optimize it. Can't ? Then wtf ? Or maybe your french friends can make, let's say, supertuxkart to be fast ? Still no ? Wtf then ?

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No. I can't make anything "Far better" in compare with current mplayer and muiowb ports. But as i see you can, you have so good theoretical base. You blame everywhere how suck kas1e at doing things, and suck his ports, and he want money all the time, what a sucker, so i assume you can do all better. Right ?

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I guess i do not care what you guess. I do not need you to teach me what i should or should't do.

Thanks for this debate. I'm finished with it now.