AmigaOS 4.1 update 2 usability requests

@Hans

Anything that writes to disk on a whim every time a program, be it command, application or library, is launched, _is_ getting in the way. And this most definetly is not "amiga like" behaviour.

To enforce this into the system as part of a minor upgrade, without even offering an option to turn it on/off, is highly unprofessional.

@trixie

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Yes, great isn't it? On OS3 I have yet to see any app where this is a problem, with one exception (AfA's diskfont_lib.exe that writes fontcache to fonts:, but I always fixed that by editing the binary so it uses t:fontlst instead).

In MUI, Zune etc. it is optional whether to automatically save to disk or not on exit.

Quite clearly the concept of "USE" and "SAVE" is one of the highlights of AmigaOS - am I allone in thinking this?

@kolla

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You wouldn't have even noticed that it was there if it hadn't been announced. It doesn't slow down program launching; no, the system doesn't have to consult APPDIR: when you double-click on an icon, and the extremely low priority of the server that does the caching, ensures that it won't get in the way of loading anything. No, it does NOT block loading until it's done caching.

IMHO, it does NOT get in the way of the user experience in any way, and it provides a feature that is useful under certain circumstances.

I don't see how this is "enforced" either; it's a new feature, not a prison sentence. I added a few new features to MiniGL as well and they can't be disabled, so you could argue that I "enforced" these. Take this to it's logical extreme, and everything that's new is "enforced."

Hans

@Hans

FYI, I only have OS4.0 which I use very rarely (only got CSPPC, and it doesnt exactly run fast). But the more I read about OS4 I realize that it is not the type of AmigaOS I would want anyways.

I'm curious what those people doing kiosk systems think about the enforced disk writes. Would be highly ironic of this new feature would kill off the only professional niche OS4 has found so far.

@kolla

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So you really are in no position to judge at all, since you don't even have the opportunity to try it out. If tiny things like this are enough to put you off, then there's just no pleasing you while still delivering the new features that everyone else wants.

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Seeing as it has zero impact on performance, and that it tolerates not being able to write to the cache (yes, you could lock it if you wanted to), I highly doubt that people doing kiosk systems would even blink an eye about this.

Hans

@Hans

Correct, I dont have to relate to it, and yes, it's exactly these tiny things that makes me reconsider buying into OS4. I know what makes me like AmigaOS, screw around with that, and there's very little appealing left.

Just for the heck of it, got some screenshots showing off how the new and supposedly improved ASL works? I suspect it to be just another disappointment.

I have to say, appdir: is a nice feature I find myself using more and more and if one doesn't like it , can simply not use it.

@kolla Quote:
Sure, if you don't want AmigaOS to move forward, then by all means stick with OS3.x or OS1.3 or whatever. Improvement requires change, and you cannot expect to like every change made.

I'm sure there were some OS1.3 users screaming that all the massive changes in OS2.0 were not "Amiga like".

BTW, I think we have become used to AmigaOS not changing much: Going from OS2.0 to OS3.0 the changes were quite small, and since OS3.0 there have been almost no changes at all under-the-hood. If Commodore had not gone under, I'm sure we would have seen many big changes.

@kolla Quote:
LOL, I'm not sure if you got his sarcasm, or whether you were just trying to be clever :)

@kolla Quote:
Then AmigaOS will *never* become more modern. Some new features will REQUIRE writing to the disk without your consent. And IMHO there is nothing wrong with this, as long as your filing system is journalled.

@kolla

Hey it seems to me you are a grumpy old man stuck in the past. You know in order to modernize an OS you have to change things. A writable media is not such a whacky requirement nowadays we are not on floppy anymore you know.

I think this (AppDir) is a good idea, maybe it would be cool to be able to configure where the cache is stored (so that one can have a clean system partition (maybe write protected) where only system's files are and every user settings and exploitation data can be stored elsewhere.

@kolla
As you point about "many oses have that kinf of features like appdir, and there is nothing "amiga" (with which i can agree in general, many oses already on many steps mature more that amigaos, like unixes, windowses, macoses and other qnxes and beoses), but the main fact is it: If you want something modern, something up2date and something which you want _really used_, then, any OS (not only amigaos, but any os), will be always changes, growing up and matures. That is real world and that will be always, everthere and all the time.

For you just better stick with 3.9bb2 + tons of patches on some a1200, but for sure, that is not my way. I already hate all that "Retro" crap, which mean only screams about past, crying about old-good amiga days, and do nothing, except only some stoopid plain-html pages, or unbiliveber "68k only sites".

As you say, you have CSPPC (so, a4000) and maximum 266 mhz of cpu (or 300, if you lucky by speedup). But i can say, that for normal feel and looks and usage, even 1ghz of CPU it's not enough (but more or less ok). And that is not because os4 slow than os3.8 or kind. That is because my needs are different today if compare with only play the crappy-ugly ocs games from a500.

I agree, there is _MANY_ places on which need to work in aos4, many bugs (not so many, but they are here, and it's numerical of bugs), but , all in all i can surf the net, i can play youtube, i can use emulators, i can listen mp3/radio and so on. For sure i can't do professional "video editing", or painting (in terms of today world, those ppaint, tvpains and fxpaints suck hard), but still, by watching the last 2 years, i can say that os4 growing up very well.

In general that all matter of taste and interest. If you have no interst, then not use it at all. If you want somethink "only amiga possible", then a500 + aos1.3 or what it was :)

@all

Let's drop the "appdir:" discussion in this thread. A few users may dislike it but it's not going to go away by having a fruitless unending discussion about it here. All points for/against have already been raised and it's not going to go anywhere from this point.

If people still want to have a flame war over it, that still isn't going to raise any new points nor lead to its removal, you're welcome to conduct private discussions about it using the PM facility or make a new post in the too hot to handle forum.

IMO some minor things have to be changed in the forthcoming update (be it 4.1.2 or 4.2).

First of, Amiupdate should be fully integrated to the system, period. And an option of enabling / disabling should be provided after initial setup, in case an expert user would like to disable it. I cannot understand why Amiupdate is not even on the contribution list, can somebody explain this?

Secondly, OWB must implement a download manager, asap! Also, I would like to add some mouse gestures from Opera if possible (e.g holding down right button and pressing once the left button, browser directs you back).

Dock, well should said it already, auto hide etc!

Gnash, I hope it will be ready!

Implement some nice apps from OS4depot as default behavior. e.g. that tiny utility that iconfies the drawers in fading mode when pressing the left shift, its very smooth!

I hope Filer will have most of Dopus functionalities (dual lister, drag and drop etc) and will be part of the system.

Make a Dark Theme available!

Anyway, I believe that most tweaks regarding usability will come along with an expanded version of contribution list with polished and finalized products.

Also, please, come in contact with authors of great software (e.g Hollywood) and release a demo of let's say 30 Days, included in the contribution list too.

MP is important for me because many times an app crashes and puts on halt the whole system.

@Cool_amigaN Quote:
Take that argument up with Rigo, since it's his baby, and he's the one who gets to decide what happens to AmiUpdate. edit: And so far I think he prefers to keep it separate from OS4.

P.S. I hope to have a nice surprise for RunInUAE fans soon...

@ChrisH

Ain't it Hyperion who decide?

@kolla

Why all this negativity against things you even haven't tried in real life. Or hardly seen shots of?

If you live near Oslo,i'd gladly let you see 4.1 on my machine. So you can see for yourselves.

My Sam sits on top of an A2000 with 3.9BB2 and extra libs.
Initially i thought I would switch on my "Commodore"'s Amiga many times to feel the "Amiga feeling" only a classic can give...and yet...actually no, I never switch it on.
Sam and Aos4.1(1) give me exactly the same feeling...without the same frustrations however (heck i can even double click an ADF and be playing Alien Breed way faster than on the 2000, where i have to deactivate the GVP accelerator first).
I love my brand new advanced Amiga.

@Kicko

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Just spotted this in the docs:



It is possible that this is the change which screwed it up in the first place. Unfortunately there is no way of setting CONTROL options for auto-mounted USB devices in order to try this out (unless somebody knows different)

@Cool_amigaN

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Because it is totally free, and available from its website. So what is the point of including it on the CD?

Wouldn't that be forcing it on people? especially as it writes to disk without asking first...

Simon