A question for Polaris users

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mufa

Posted on: 2018/10/29 8:02 #1

Not too shy to talk

I bought the ASUS RX 560 card, it works well under AmigaOS 4. Unfortunately, it has one disadvantage, it is initialized only after a hard reset. After a soft reset, I always have only a black screen.

I wrote to Hans, I received the answer that some graphics cards have this and it is an unresolvable problem :(

So I plan to buy another Polaris, but I do not want to risk it.

Therefore, if you have Polars, which works well after a soft reset, please enter here the model and manufacturer of this card.

Spectre660

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/29 10:02 #2

Quite a regular

@mufa

Soft reset does not seem to work with anything newer than an R7-240 . So no Polaris soft reset . Definitely not with my Sapphire RX550 or ASUS RX560 .

Quote from Hans re an R7-250 (Verde) Model :

"There cards simply aren't designed to be soft-reset, and we're lucky that most of them do."

mufa

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/29 11:01 #3

Not too shy to talk

@Spectre660

Quote:

Soft reset does not seem to work with anything newer than an R7-240

This is not true, my R9 270 works with soft-reset.

Spectre660

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/29 11:42 #4

Quite a regular

@Mufa

Sorry.
Newer in terms of card manufacture date.
The current R7-240's and R7-250 variants were manufactured
after currently available R7-250X,R9-270,270X,280 and 280X models.
Newer models apart frorm the Polaris ones also seem to have a problem working at all with Sam460ex. Includes R7-240,R7-250(Verde)and R7-370 models .Work with the X5000 but only R7-240 soft reset works .

Raziel

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/29 13:48 #5

Home away from home

@Spectre660

I wonder, how does the PC hardware deal with this missing "soft-reset" in modern gfx card?

Don't they have a workaround in either the OS or Firmware which we could too?

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Spectre660

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/29 14:08 #6

Quite a regular

@Raziel

PC resets go back to the bios don't they ?

pvanni

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/29 14:16 #7

Not too shy to talk

@Raziel,
there is no soft reset on the PC,
as far as I know soft reset it's only an Amiga feature

Raziel

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/29 14:43 #8

Home away from home

@pvanni

It's not possible to send a (software) command to the card that "emulate" the needed reset?
Come on, it's 2018!

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Hans

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/30 2:14 #9

Home away from home

@Raziel

Quote:

It's not possible to send a (software) command to the card that "emulate" the needed reset?
Come on, it's 2018!

Nope. AFAIK, there's no way to trigger the graphics card's reset line in software... unless you reset the whole board. Maybe some PCIe controllers can do it, but that would be motherboard specific.

A soft reset doesn't actually reset the hardware. Theoretically, running the "ASICInit" routine from the graphics card's ROM should reset it to its default state. However, it doesn't always work. Bear in mind that no other OS does a soft-reset, so this is something that the graphics card manufacturers probably don't test for.

Hans

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Raziel

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/31 9:07 #10

Home away from home

@Hans

That soft reset feature was there in older cards.

Do the manufacturers simply drop it or forgot about it or was that a design choice?

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Hans

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/31 14:49 #11

Home away from home

@Raziel

Quote:

That soft reset feature was there in older cards.

No it wasn't. We were just lucky that it worked.

Hans

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Raziel

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/10/31 19:54 #12

Home away from home

@Hans

Not that i want to steal your precious coding time, but couldn't that also mean that a change in "our" code dismissed that feature?

If it wasn't there in the first place (in the hardware) but worked...and now it doesn't anymore...in my understanding this strongly points towards the amiga drivers.

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Georg

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/1 7:33 #13

Just popping in

@Hans

Quote:

Bear in mind that no other OS does a soft-reset

What about Linux where you can quit and restart the X11 server (maybe because you changed X configuration). From X11 gfx drivers' point of view that's like a soft reset.

Elwood

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/1 18:52 #14

Just can't stay away

@Georg

Yes, I had the same idea. Leave the gfx card alone, soft-reset the OS and then send some commands to the gfx card as usual. It should process them as it was not reseted.

But I bet it's not that easy, right?

Edited by Elwood on 2018/11/2 12:52:09

Philippe 'Elwood' FERRUCCI
Sam460ex 1.10 Ghz
http://elwoodb.free.fr

Raziel

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/1 19:39 #15

Home away from home

@Hans

What about @Georg's and @Elwood's idea of not sending a reset to the gfx board when AmigaOS is "soft" resetted?

Could you try that?
Is the board still reacting on a soft reset in such case?

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Hans

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/3 1:59 #16

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@Raziel

Quote:

Not that i want to steal your precious coding time, but couldn't that also mean that a change in "our" code dismissed that feature?

I didn't change anything in the code. What changed is that we're using newer GPUs that are way more complex than the previous generations.

@Georg
Quote:

What about Linux where you can quit and restart the X11 server (maybe because you changed X configuration). From X11 gfx drivers' point of view that's like a soft reset.

AFAIK, the drivers aren't fully unloaded and restarted from scratch. Likewise, the OS is still there. With our soft reset you basically lose all context.

@All
I've already spent months trying everything I can think of, including shutting down the display prior to the soft reset. Nothing made the slightest difference. It's NOT worth that much time (imagine if you were personally paying me market rates for that development time...).

My personal preference would be to ditch soft-resets altogether and make hard resets very fast. Soft-resets only exist because we have an OS designed to boot from a ROM that's been patched to load that ROM from disk.

If someone else wants to take a look, be my guest. Maybe you'll find or think of something I missed.

Hans

Join Kea Campus' Amiga Corner and support Amiga content creation
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Steady

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/3 4:55 #17

Just popping in

@Hans

I agree. Focusing on a faster hard reset would be more productive.

salass00

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/3 7:57 #18

Just can't stay away

@Hans

Quote:

AFAIK, the drivers aren't fully unloaded and restarted from scratch. Likewise, the OS is still there. With our soft reset you basically lose all context.

Kickstart modules are not reloaded on soft reset (only hard reset does that). Also global variables are not automatically reset to their initial values on soft reset either, so if you need to keep some simple data over a soft reset you could just use a global variable.

Hans

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/3 11:01 #19

Home away from home

@salass00

Quote:

Kickstart modules are not reloaded on soft reset (only hard reset does that).

It's irrelevant if the code is loaded from disk or remains in memory. The driver state has been lost.

Quote:

Also global variables are not automatically reset to their initial values on soft reset either, so if you need to keep some simple data over a soft reset you could just use a global variable.

I need the whole darn GPU and driver state! For every card...

@Steady
Quote:

I agree. Focusing on a faster hard reset would be more productive.

Thanks.

Hans

Join Kea Campus' Amiga Corner and support Amiga content creation
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Raziel

Re: A question for Polaris users

Posted on: 2018/11/3 11:30 #20

Home away from home

@Hans

Quote:

@All
I've already spent months trying everything I can think of, including shutting down the display prior to the soft reset. Nothing made the slightest difference. It's NOT worth that much time (imagine if you were personally paying me market rates for that development time...).

I thought you might have, but i didn't know that.
Apologies for wasting your time

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