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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Raziel
Quote:

But, wouldn't this be a bug in ScummVM's Amiga part then?
Or even a bug in the system itself?
Or could it be simply that ScummVM's Amiga part is old enough to have outlived the coding necessaties of the current system?


As Salas00 says its bug in public newlib version. For me Barony also crashes with that IDOS 0x00000000 only on public version of os4 , while didn't on beta ones with newer newlib. So while when i test it localy all works fine, when i release it ppls report crashes , and for make it works on public versions i had to do those workarounds.

In other words, made that change localy for your own builds only, without commiting those changes to scummvm repo, as its bug in our side which already fixed just didn't released.

Join us to improve dopus5!
AmigaOS4 on youtube
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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@kas1e

It's already up as PR, but i'll add a note that this behaviour has been fixed in beta and should be removed once this beta has hit the streets.

Thank you very much for the help again

Also thank you to all who contributed

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@kas1e

You got PM

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@all

So, i have a bunch of shared objects which i want to strip in one go, preferably with only one command.

I read the manual for strip and tried doing it this way
Quote:

strip shareddir/*

which actually seems to work, but it only seems so, as all of the stripped binaries are broken afterwards.

They do have the same size they'd have if i used strip shareddir/sharedlib -o othersubdir/sharedlib, but they are rejected by my program, so i'm assuming something wennt wrong.

My question is:
Is strip shareddir/* supposed to work?
Might that be a bug in our binutils/strip command?
Might it be that on-the-fly stripping/altering of shared libs are not supported or broken?

Is there any other way i could automate the stripping of more than one shared objects WITHIN a makefile?

I know how to do it with "list lformat" and executing the corresponding batch file afterwards, but i'd rather do it in the makefile.

Thanks a lot

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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Another sh/shell/makedir question

I've got a makedir file which features a
for loop
for p in plugins/*
    do
        echo "strip $p -o amigaospath/$p"
    done


Now, while the above works perfectly in a shell (within a text file, started with "sh test.sh") it errors out in the makefile with
Quote:

for p in plugins/*
T:gmake.sh.256.JEHKAK[1]: syntax error: `for' unmatched

and i'm puzzled as to why?

Any pointers?

Thank you

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Raziel

I *think* i know the reason.

While processing the makefile a temporary file is created in T: and it seems that the for loop holds just the first line instead of the four that needs to be processed.

It errors because the one line does not match a complete loop.
Need to find a way to pack everything in one line then.

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Raziel

This one works with "sh test.sh", but will produce empty $p in the makefile script
for p in plugins/*; do "strip $p -o path/$p"; done


Edit:
Hmm, something fishy is going on here.

With this line
for _plugin in plugins/*; do "echo $_plugin"; done

i get this output
Quote:

for _plugin in plugins/*; do "echo plugin"; done
T:gmake.sh.249.ZOLVUI[1]: echo plugin: not found


Why is my variable name cut (missing it's leading underscore) instead of it's entry read out?
And who is responsible?
I don't think it's the makefile per se, rather the temporary command in T: seem to cut my variable.

Any help appreciated...


Edited by Raziel on 2019/10/21 14:31:15
Edited by Raziel on 2019/10/21 14:32:05
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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Raziel

Just to finish this...

I ended up using foreach as a one-line command.
$(foreach plugin, $(PLUGINS), $(STRIP) $(plugin) -$(AMIGAOSPATH)/$(plugin);)

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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What does that mean?

Quote:

WARNING: Failed loading plugin 'Games:ScummVM/plugins/libzvision.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libzvision.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@all

Ok, please help, another one of those darn shared objects bugs i don't know how to deal with...

I get this on starting the app, no window/screen is ever opened, it seems it's crashing while reading in the plugins (again), but this time it's libstdc++ which is complaining
Crash log for task "scummvm"
Generated by GrimReaper 53.19
Crash occured in module libstdc
++.so at address 0x7EA176A0
Type of crash
DSI (Data Storage Interruptexception
Alert number
0x80000003

Register dump
:
GPR (General Purpose Registers):
   
000000000 5CA7BD10 5F726561 4DFB9F8C FFFFFFFF 5C9ABC28 4DF8A470 5C9AC3F4 
   8
4DF8A470 00000008 00000000 4DF901C0 28842824 4DFC1E6C 00000000 4EA30680 
  16
7EE2E10C 00000000 4E047C40 5C9A8580 02B30000 02B30000 00000000 00000001 
  24
6FF8C180 5C9AC3F4 FFFFFFFF 4DF8A470 5C9ABC28 00000001 4DFB1DD8 4DF901D8 


FPR 
(Floating Point RegistersNaN Not a Number):
   
0:              nan     2.29025e-303     3.35397e-308       1.188e-302 
   4
:     1.62719e-302     2.19876e-303     2.47325e-303     2.83923e-303 
   8
:     2.38175e-303                1               64       4.5036e+15 
  12
:      2.14748e+09      2.14748e+09                0                0 
  16
:                0                0                0                0 
  20
:                0                0                0                0 
  24
:                0                0                0                0 
  28
:                0                0              0.1       4.5036e+15 

FPSCR 
(Floating Point Status and Control Register): 0x82020000


SPRs 
(Special Purpose Registers):
           
Machine State (msr) : 0x0000B030
                Condition 
(cr) : 0x4DA55C34
      Instruction Pointer 
(ip) : 0x7EA176A0
       Xtended Exception 
(xer) : 0x5BFB4018
                   Count 
(ctr) : 0x6FF494D0
                     Link 
(lr) : 0x7FB11920
            DSI Status 
(dsisr) : 0x5BFB3DD0
            Data Address 
(dar) : 0x021AD048



680x0 emulated registers
:
DATA00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 
ADDR
00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 
FPU0
:                0                0                0                0 
FPU4
:                0                0                0                0 



Symbol info
:
Instruction pointer 0x7EA176A0 belongs to module "libstdc++.so" (PowerPC
Symbol_ZNK10__cxxabiv121__vmi_class_type_info20__do_find_public_srcEiPKvPKNS_17__class_type_infoES2_ 0xC0 in section 10 offset 0x000768D8

Stack trace
:
    
Development:Coding/Ports/VM/scummvm-test/sobjs/libstdc++.so:_ZNK10__cxxabiv121__vmi_class_type_info20__do_find_public_srcEiPKvPKNS_17__class_type_infoES2_()+0xc0 (section 10 0x768D8)
    
Development:Coding/Ports/VM/scummvm-test/sobjs/libstdc++.so:__dynamic_cast()+0x170 (section 10 0x772B4)
    [
backends/platform/sdl/sdl.cpp:294scummvm:_ZN11OSystem_SDL11initBackendEv()+0x504 (section 11 0x283C)
    [
base/main.cpp:469scummvm:scummvm_main()+0x788 (section 11 0x9B74)
    [
backends/platform/sdl/amigaos/amigaos-main.cpp:79scummvm:main()+0x264 (section 11 0x79F4)
    
native kernel module newlib.library.kmod+0x000020a4
    native kernel module newlib
.library.kmod+0x00002d0c
    native kernel module newlib
.library.kmod+0x00002ee8
    scummvm
:_start()+0x170 (section 11 0x1AB8)
    
native kernel module dos.library.kmod+0x000255c8
    native kernel module kernel
+0x000420ac
    native kernel module kernel
+0x000420f4

PPC disassembly
:
 
7ea176987cbc0214   add               r5,r28,r0
 7ea1769c
81230000   lwz               r9,0(r3)
*
7ea176a081290020   lwz               r9,32(r9)
 
7ea176a47d2903a6   mtctr             r9
 7ea176a8
4e800421   bctrl             

System information
:

CPU 
 Model
P.ASemi PWRficient PA6T-1682M VB1 
 CPU speed
1800 MHz 
 FSB speed
900 MHz 
 Extensions
altivec 

Machine 
 Machine name
AmigaOne X1000 
 Memory
2097152 KB 
 Extensions
bus.pci bus.pcie


Edited by Raziel on 2019/10/23 13:01:56
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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Raziel

r9 has 0x8 in it, so this is attempt to read (Load Word and Zero) from a zero page (0-4095). (I don't understand why DAR has some "sane" value).

I guess there is yet another NULL pointer issue lurking there.

In SDL.cpp you might try to replace dynamic_cast with static_cast, just for test. Static_cast is simpler and unsafer than dynamic_cast.

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Capehill

I'm completely lost here

There is all sorts of crazy stuff going on now.

I changed the CXXFLAGS from -std=gnu++11 to -std=c++11 and it will error out in configure...that was to be expected, ince vsnprintf is not supported.

I changed it to use none -std and now i'm getting a window on scummvm start telling me

ELF library
Unable to resolve symbol
'_ZdlPvj'
in scummvm

Back to using -std=gnu++11 then and trying your fix


EDIT:
I'm editing this, so that i may not forget what the fix was and to help others looking for a solution.

The reason for scummvm failing, was that it overrid --std=gnu++11 with it's configure-based --std=c++11.
Since configure will always be the last one claiming compiler flags it clashed.

A fix is now in place as easy as simply using --std=gnu++11 for newlib based, __STRICT_ANSI__ platforms such as AmigaOS4.


Edited by Raziel on 2020/5/31 13:30:29
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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@capehill

Quote:

C++ backends/platform/sdl/sdl.o
backends/platform/sdl/sdl.cpp: In member function 'virtual void OSystem_SDL::initBackend()':
backends/platform/sdl/sdl.cpp:295:52: error: cannot convert from pointer to base class 'GraphicsManager' to pointer to derived class 'SdlGraphicsManager' because the base is virtual
static_cast<SdlGraphicsManager *>(_graphicsManager)->activateManager();
^
gmake: *** [backends/platform/sdl/sdl.o] Error 1


edit:
i really hope it will be just another NULL pointer case...ideally one that is as easy to fix as the last one

Any debug prints i should set?

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Capehill

Is there anything i could do to corner the problem?

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Raziel

A smaller example would be helpful. I doubt Sebastian will start debugging ScummVM project. Problem is the crash occurs deep in the standard C++ library. There isn't probably any AmigaOS 4 -specific code near that but who knows?

scummvm-test/sobjs/libstdc++.so - is this the one that came with your GCC 8.2 or some other version? Have you checked with Snoopy which .so is loaded?

Does threading model (-athread) make any difference?

I tried to make a trivial dynamic_cast example and was able to crash with an ISI (you have a DSI), when linking dynamically, but I'm simply too tired now to write any kind of "sane" bug report. Maybe on weekend.

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Capehill

No problem, you already gave me some pointers on where to look next.

libstdc++.so is the one that came with my AmigaOS4 install CD, i didn't know there were newer versions...have to take a look.

I also read somewhere about -athread=amiga, which should be used instead of native, have to check that too, i guess.

I'll check out what happens if i explicitely give the plugins path through a DEFINE, instead of letting scummvm find it eventually.

Snoopy doesn't tell me which .so is load, because it will crash beforehand, but the SDL1 build of scummvm tells me that none of the plugins from scummvm can be load, but that might be a completely different error?
ScummVM_SDL1 -d9 -F
Debuglevel 
(from command line): 9
Root node
Reading plugins from plugin directory 
''
Reading plugins from plugin directory 'plugins/'
Couldn't open plugin directory '/usr/local/lib/scummvm'
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libscumm.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libscumm.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libaccess.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libaccess.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libadl.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libadl.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libagi.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libagi.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libagos.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libagos.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libbbvs.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libbbvs.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libbladerunner.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libbladerunner.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcge.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcge.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcge2.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcge2.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcine.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcine.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcomposer.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcomposer.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcruise.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcruise.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcryomni3d.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libcryomni3d.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libdraci.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libdraci.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libdrascula.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libdrascula.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libdreamweb.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libdreamweb.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libfullpipe.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libfullpipe.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libgnap.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libgnap.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libgob.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libgob.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libgroovie.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libgroovie.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libhdb.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libhdb.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libhopkins.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libhopkins.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libhugo.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libhugo.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libillusions.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libillusions.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libkyra.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libkyra.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/liblab.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/liblab.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/liblure.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/liblure.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmade.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmade.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmads.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmads.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmohawk.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmohawk.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmortevielle.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libmortevielle.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libneverhood.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libneverhood.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libparallaction.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libparallaction.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libpegasus.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libpegasus.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libplumbers.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libplumbers.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libprince.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libprince.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libqueen.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libqueen.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsaga.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsaga.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsci.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsci.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsherlock.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsherlock.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsky.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsky.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsupernova.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsupernova.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsword1.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsword1.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsword2.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsword2.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsword25.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libsword25.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libteenagent.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libteenagent.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtinsel.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtinsel.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtitanic.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtitanic.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtoltecs.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtoltecs.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtony.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtony.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtoon.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtoon.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtouche.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtouche.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtsage.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtsage.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtucker.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libtucker.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libvoyeur.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libvoyeur.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libwintermute.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libwintermute.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libxeen.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libxeen.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!
WARNING: Failed loading plugin '
Games:ScummVM/plugins/libzvision.so' (Failed loading Games:ScummVM/plugins/libzvision.so: SDL_LoadObject() not implemented)!

I don't get this output with SDL2.

And finally, i'm sorry, but i'm not able to provide any other testcase than ScummVM.

Thank you

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Raziel

GCC:lib/ should have another version. To be honest I don't know how these are to be mixed (the old and new libstdc++.so) and what is the compatibility.

Quote:

Snoopy doesn't tell me which .so is load,


But GR did (show the path). As I said, I'm tired..

I don't think SDL_LoadObject is implemented in SDL1 port.

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Capehill

Hehe, you seem to forget you are talking to noob
Mixing is easy, you just have to forget that there is libstdc++.so in yet another directory i completely missed.
I was using ancompletely outdated libstdc++ the whole time...funny that it worked at one time.
Trying to rebuild and test again...

Thanks for the hint about SDL1 missing SDOL_LoadObject...something for the future in SDL1 port?
Should i write a bug report?

Take your time to recover...and thanks for all the hints

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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Hmm, next funny thing...

libstdc++.so is located in sdk:gcc/lib
but
libgcc.so is in sdk:gcc/lib/gcc/ppc-amigaos/8.3.0/

Why is that?
May it be an incomplete installation?
A Problem of the beta-nature of gcc 8.3.0?

Can i savely use it?
It's huge...894.549 bytes compared to 56.324 of the one i have now (unstripped maybe)?
Can i savely strip it?

Questions...

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Re: Porting to AmigaOS4 thread
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@Capehill

/me hugs Capehill

Recompiled and rebuilt with updated libgcc and libstdc++ in place and working again

It still crashes, but only if i have an empty .ini.
Probably because it can't access some data files which are set up with path= in said .ini file, will have to check that.
Why libstdc++ is still crashing is beyond me though, shouldn't have aynthing to do with it...having the correct sobjs/ in place now...ah well, more mysteries.

Thank you very much

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