Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?

@walkero

Absolutely, i have much respect for them and to see the real amount of their work, looking at the size of their changelog (and read it) is more that enough... for sure in latest 3 years they worked harder then the OS4 "counterpart" (except the few involved into the Enhancer pack)

Just its strange to see OS3 evolving faster than OS4!

@samo79

I am not involved (perhaps kas1e can say more) but my impression is OS3 development is more or less independent driven by the 2 motivated devs. Thomas Richter is the head and he is not forced to ask about everything (except propably if using OS4 sources). Base was 3.1 sources and in some cases OS4 sources added.

At OS4 the situation seems to be more complicated and if you get no money and additionally have problems to get permissions or needed responses you become frustrated and lose your motivation. That at least would explain the obvious difference.

Covid crap may be (in some term) responsable for a possible delay in the production of the hardware.. certain not in the software development which on the contrary should have accelerated.

@Olaf
We as OS4 beta testers know nothing about OS3 developing, as we have separate mail lists.

But my own IMHO that you are right. They're just a few very energetic and motivated persons working on OS3 now (Thomas R) and who is probably a developer-lead in their team. So that team is well organized and works as they think it best, and when they ready and made a release archive and stuff, then they give to Hyperion the final product to release and that all. But that just IMHO.

With OS4 things more complicated than with OS3, as involving "a bit" more components and stuff and supported hardware, and different BIOSes, more pipelines, etc, and so there usually a bit more work need to do in all fronts.

But, one of the problems with OS4 now, is that there no any "project manager" anymore since Ssolie fired, so it all just chaotic bug fixing/improving when/if anyone wants without any direction.

Add that OS4 is split now in all the ways, part in Enhancer, the kernel in Trevor's hands, legality issues... Mess. But this mess does not block Hyperion still to release some bug fixes for sake of almightly crap! :) Just damn few fixes for some classes, newlib, some libs, which 100% out of the legality issues. Why do not give users the light of life so users can shut up for a year or two? Irrational. And everyone who helps Hyperion (beta testers, developers) saying the same. And the answer is - silence :)

@kas1e

Yes of course. Bug fixes (expecially if already there) should be delivered. Expecially if a date for a official big update is unknown.

@Olaf
Quote:

And everyone keep repeat that to Hyperion. I mean everyone. Users, we as beta-testers, remain os4 developers too ! And BUM, nothing. No answer. Just ignoring :)

@kas1e

Hyperion is Ben H.

No clue what he really wants with OS4

@Olaf
Quote:

Maybe that explains everything :)

But after the years and years with OS4, even if some of us wish to change it on something other "semi retro-semi-modern", we just can't. Too much spend in, that I am sure almost no one who is connected to os4 can't just switch to morphos for example and those ones who will be disappointed till final, will just leave the Amiga scene as a whole.

@kas1e

We can also add the development of the Enhancer pack on OS3 :)

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=82644&page=4

So it's not only a few energetic guys that for their "personal" reason decided to be involved in retro OS development, our A-Eon is even involved on this..

@Samo
Quote:

Yeah, seeing the latest post in that thread, seems OS3 developing of Enhancer is ongoing.. But, again, recreating of a wheel! Reimplementing of datatype.library :)

But sure, in the OS3/classic market there a bit more money, that for sure.

Seems Mattew finds it more important to inform OS3 users about OS3 Enhancer changes, than inform OS4 users about OS4 Enhancer changes there. Well done :)

@kas1e

I contacted some known amiga developers in the past (most former OS4 developers)

From what I read when software devs (application developers) drop OS4 they do not switch platform but completely drop the whole platform (often not only frustrated by Hyperion or slow OS development but also by the unfriendly community and the Red versus Blue wars.

In case of OS developers, additionally there are those damned NDAs signed by the developers with Hyperion making it impossible (or at least risky) to contribute to anything else. So they leave too then

@kas1e

Mattew informs where money is ;)

@kas1e

Continuing so they will end up replacing all the system components of AmigaOS4 in the hands of Hyperion, effectively rewriting the facto a new AmigaOS4!

I wonder if at this point it wasn't better to make a cheap offer to hyperion to take over the whole package

@samo79

Quote:
Of course it would be in A-EON's best interest to own the OS for the hardware they make, but Hyperion just wouldn't sell it. From what I gather, A-EON had offered to invest in the development of OS4 in return for some control over the OS, but they were turned down. Hyperion simply assumed that Trevor would keep pouring money into the pot but all OS rights and decision-making would remain with Ben. At some point this attitude became impossible to bear, hence the split of the former partners and the arrival of Enhancer.

@trixie

Quote:

So in other words, they are busy with doing what was already done, and now need to spend years on beta testing, and fixing bugs, or just dump incompatible or buggy updates on users, on things that did not need to be replaced and we see no improvements on OS4 components because they can’t work in harmony with Hyperion.

The price tag on buggy updates will of cause be dumped on the users, that we have to buy from there less then bug free AmiStore. They can’t even fix the links on their web page.

@orgin

Quote:
Thank you...i wouldn't have been able to express it better myself.

@Raziel

well lot of peaple care if it brakes, existing AmigaOS3.x software. AmigaOS4.X software can be recompiled, most of it is C/C++ code that’s not the issue.

What I find is strange is that Hyperion or AEON don't spend more time on actually figure out how to get NallePuh or make hardware that has some Amiga chipsets, because this is way we are using PowerPC.

@Raziel

Switching architecture will change absolute nothing for us in term of software quality nor in term of the speed of development, main problem with OS4 is the complete disorganization of those involved and their proved unprofessionalism, not to count all that childish behaviour all around .. all of that was never related to the CPU used.
Just take AROS as example, it runs everywhere and it's 100% free, however it never advanced mutch and its years behind us

@samo79

That's exactly the case - only major difference that I could see is the cheaper (and modern) hardware, but wouldn't that already have happened for AROS?

I surely hope they could settle the OS ownerships and then hire experienced persons to do the job. Will that happen in near future, probably not...

@samo79

Wrt development speed.

AROS is even more niche
AROS never got the interest NG AmigaOS got
AROS was/is based on AmigaOS3

What I'm trying to say is that if there had been a switch to an incompatible hardware base centuries ago (when they failed to properly move to ppc) and this base would have been x86, we'd definitely be in a much better position now.

1. Thousands of possible hardware options
2. Years of people writing drivers
3. Years of developed/recompiled/ported/adapted software
4. Lots of new developers who joined due to the platform
5. You name it

It wouldn't matter that we'd had a cut in software due to incompatibility.
Heck, there is petunia now, there had been a fast enough release of uae to use old software then too.


...


But its moot to talk about the past and what could have been.

It is what's happening today that's important and I believe it's too late too.
They scared off the last remaining capable devs and will lose the last remaining fans with their kindergarten attitude and policy of
1) I know something you dont, but I won't tell you
and
2) I've got something you want, but I won't share it


...


It's really hard to say, but I'm preparing my ultimate switch to linux...and due to what happened (or rather what not happened) the last 20 years, I dont think it will hurt much...