Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?

@Raziel
Quote:

IMHO there can't be a "switch". Linux, windows, all those "big" oses have a lot of stuff about which you need not care. By that, you start to be a casual user, without creativity. I mean, who on Linux will be in needs to have ScummVM port, if, it of course there already ?:) Or who on Linux will need some "new site" where you will what? :) I mean, there no "switch", either forgot amiga scene at all and continue the life as before, or not :) Worrying about all that amiga crap does not mean you didn't use Linux, windows, or whatever else, it just independent.

@samo79

Where is Aros "years" behind? ;)

of course only always few active developers (mostly only 1-2 skilled contributing) and thus only slow progress.

The bigger problem always was that there never was a real plan or strategy behind and noone feeling really responsible for the package (seen from user perspective). As a result very advanced in many areas (f.e. mesa/gallium support for many years) on the other hand difficult to find full supported hardware and a only very limited desktop. That improved when magellan was ported but the "native" desktop Wanderer was and is buggy and limited. It would have needed a team (more than 2) with defined goals (f.e. full support and easy installation on selected hardware) with a real project organization and management. Similar to MorphOS team (at least I guess that). The API is mainly based on 3.1 but also includes many extensions.

And regarding user base, yes Aros never was really supported in the community, most people still active decided long ago for either red or blue camp and if they drop it they mostly leave the community. They not even look at competing platforms mostly (unfortunately).

At least Aros 68k now found its home (Vampire+UAE) with active devs behind and much interest by users.

Regarding X86 (or AMD64) or not

It will not happen anyway because Trevor will not finance it because he now has much to loose with his PPC hardware.

But even if it would happen, it of course would not automatic bring new users. And it is not easy to do because you need lots of emulation layers to run both 68k and PPC software. And then you still need new software that motivates people to buy new hardware and OS licenses. We will see what happens when MorphOS is ported.

@kas1e

+1

that is my view too. Anything amiga related is small hobby, I do not expect it to replace my work horses by it. And I do not care how advanced f.e. web browser is because I have enough options there. The same attitude is common in most of the "classic" community, it is a hobby, not more not less. Nobody expects the platform to become mainstream again or use it for everyday tasks. It is fun. In the NG community many people still seem to dream of a "golden future" and are disappointed because not happening.

I have one PC for Linux and several with Windows, doing something with amiga has nothing to do with those.

@Raziel

It is all software stupid ;)

Of course you can "modernize" the OS but then you propably break all software. Some can perhaps be adapted and recompiled but much would no longer work.

Software finally is the reason why people use a certain OS. In best case you can easily port all sort of linux software but then you have to answer the question why not stay on linux. In worst case you loose the last traditional users and win no new.

@kas1e

Casual, yes - That will be it.
I'm not like you or any of the other awesome guys who develop, create and enrich our platform with new stuff, fixes, updates and great things to play with.

I'm a user who was lucky enough to learn how to recompile and script.
I do stuff I like and what interests me.

I will never be able to code.

Anyone with the SDK installed can take over ScummVM, theres nothing special about a recompile.


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If there was an active development from the creators side to, let's say the adtools/SDK (Hyperion in this case), with feedback and active bugfixing and feedback to reporters, I'd say there is a future...but its not, and that will be the end of it, I'm afraid.

e.g. the dynamic_cast crash.
Its known for years, but nothing is done about it.
Just like you said, utter silence.


This is just an example, there are so many roadblocks with no workers already, that the OS development grinded to a halt.


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I dont think any "news" from amiwest will change anything.
It's too late for that.

@Raziel

Quote:

Well I don't agree, about "people who just recompile stuff", becouse it puts lots more work left on peaple who know howto code, if its not done.

If just writing manuals, helping out with translations, or designing icons, these things are highly apricated by developers like myself, who write software from ground up.

Because that's time I like to spend on coding.

Time that is given away for free is 100 times more viable than any donation.

However some stuff should not be just recompiled, some stuff like paths are unique to AmigaOS, can often there is some testing to find issue and some checks that adopted, for example Grep does not think a directory is a directory, something is different between Linux and AmigaOS, so thats is a broken port.

@LiveForIt

I didn't mean to degrade the work of people that invest their time in such side work, supporting the devs.

I did that myself for some projects, even more time i invested in ScummVM, beside the recompile (readme to amigaguide converter script, installer script, amiupdate support, lots of beta testing on new engines etc.)

"Recompile" is what I was told I'm doing numerous times when asking for help, but that aside.
The problem for me personally is that there is no real debugger that works with ports.
The buglogs I can offer to the devs do not help, since they di not offer a stack backtrace.
The backtrace of grimreaper is insufficient as it must of the time points to random memory areas/random source file which have nothing to do with the eventual fix.

But that also set aside.


The lack of updates to the sdk/adtools, the lack of fixes to already known bugs makes it harder to develop/port with every passing day, just like kas1e said.

...

I still hope for a change (generally, including the OS), but I doubt it.

People complain, get despondent and in some case leave the scene altogether when there is silence for months or even years from these companies so I don't think they have anything to lose by being more open with the community.

Monthly updates on current projects would be a good idea and I think people would rather be told something like we haven't made much progress this month, than face a wall of silence.

I don't know frequently updates appear on Hyperion's beta server these days bu I think a it wouldn't hurt if there was twitter account that relayed version numbers of the various components as and when they get updated on the server. Anyone of the beta testers could maintain this with little effort and the rest of the userbase could at least see that work was ongoing no matter big or small.

I live fairly close to Amigkit and tend to prefer to make a personal visit when I by something. I've found that Matthew is happy chat at lenght face to face and is pretty open about what is happening behind the scenes. I try not to share what he's told me thse days but I think it would be better if he shared more details with the community.

I think another good form of community engagement would be to get the community involved in some of the decision making with regard to the direction of OS development and what software or hardware is produced. Something like we are considering and adding X and Y feature to the OS but currently there is only the resources to work on one which would the userbase prefer first?

I guess beta testers know (a bit) what is going on regarding development on both OS3 and OS4. Isnt there a way to get that info out to the public... (forums)

@Skateman

Beta testers are NDA bound and aren't allowed to decide what is okey or not to divulge on their own.

@orgin

I was expecting that, but who needs who...
Without OS4 users what software is there to betatest for example.

@Skateman

Let's see if someone who is allowed to tell, joins and do tell.

The chance is there...

But I doubt it, toddlers tend to not share their stuff...

@Raziel

Like the topic subject suggests,user communication should always be very important. No matter where the news comes from and even if its speculative, the Amiga platfom can benefit from this somehow. It should not be that Beta Testers get into troubles regarding the NDA.

A-Eon, AmigaKit and Hyperion have to understand that the whole situation not only makes users angree, and discourage the last developers to continue creating applications for AmigaOS 4. In case you missed it, read what imagodespira writes at the following post, under the screenshot
https://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum ... id=120712#forumpost120712

I don't know if A-Eon, AmigaKit and Hyperion realize it, but the situation is really crucial, in my opinion. We can't lose developers from this platform. There are not many left. They need to change the way they work and communicate. No more excuses needed.

@walkero

I read it and it just fits perfectly into their policy and behaviour of ignorance towards paying customers, end users and third party devs.

Instead of, like it was already said in this thread, listen to the people that actually USE and WORK with the system system, accept feedback and act accordingly to make the whole experience better, they keep on with the same behaviour like they do for the last tenth of years.

It drives me mad that there are people on the helm that talk about everything but not get things done, that don't listen to the community but make the same mistakes over and over again.

I'm afraid it will not change

@Raziel
Interestingly that before it was only Hyperion with such a policy, and AEON starts like more or less "open", but a year, then two and they go under the rock the same.

I mean, ok, Hyperion is known for its problem. What problem in AEON now about software releases, I mean:

1). Why not released that hardware-accelerated version of the driver, so amiboing guys can release their 1 year ago ready Emotion with its support? Wtf? Why they piece them off like that?

AEON ask for making all fast, and once got all the help and support from them, just "ok, thanks, see you later", and silence. Is it what? Does Mattew hope they will help them after such a strange logic again?

2). Why not released an SDK with all the classes as were promised a year(s?) ago?

3). Why not released updated zzd10h classes which send to Mattew long ago?

4). Hans works on Warp3dNova still, that ok, but for real necessary stuff (like dealing with register allocator, adding 2 instructions for AmiBoing guys so they can make their games works on os4, adding one instruction so newer gl4es can be made) are not done, probably in favor of other projects. Is Mattew didn't see where the priority lies?

5). Why no one of them, even I am sure reading this topic, don't care to write any reply? Trevor? Mattew? Tim? Hello! We all about to ends up with no developers and users.

Really, all this just piece me off and I can't understand it all.

Maybe the reason is that all the people in charge are too old now? And just can't be that energetic and just doing it all in the chill mode?

There should be some explaining. Some sane explains. It can't be that they don't get what happens.

@thread

I was fed up waiting. Yesterday, I broke the CR2032 support of my X1000 wen I wanted to change it.

I wanted to changed it because me X1000 stated to shut down without any notice.

Since it's broken, it will have to wait until repair.

And since absolutely nothing happens regarding AmigaOS 4.1 whether it is from Hyperion or A-Eon, I've just bought (for 300 Euros) a PowerMac G5 2,7 Ghz that I got this morning.

I'm now having a lot of fun with MorphOS 3.14, Wayfarer, MPlayer, Iris and so on. And this on the faster supported Amiganoid system (way faster than the expensive X1000 or X5000).

Sorry A-Eon and Hyperion but a lot of people will leave and then you will have no one anymore using your OS or the ESP. Too late.

I'm not waiting for anything during AmiWest : talks and talks and talks but nothing will come out after the event.

@K-L

Ah, crap to hear that

I still hope the situation changes, but I doubt it with every day that passes.

Have fun with MOS.


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@Hyperion/AEon/AmigaKit

Great work guys...one down, roughly 200 to go...

@kas1e

I am very much looking forward to answers to your questions.

You are a beta tester and more closely to mailing lists and more up to date os parts and information...
...but what you wrote so far takes away the last bits of hope for a change.


...

We need information and the crucial fixes to the os (ram barrier etc.) better now than next year or even later.


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But what do we get?

A lot of anger on this thread.
This site is generally free of of the hysteria of some of the other sites.
So when people on this forum say enough is enough, Hyperion and AEON should really take note.

For my personal point of view on the situation, I'm not expecting AmigaOS to take over the world.
Nor am I expecting the fastest hardware at the lowest prices, our platform is to niche for that too happen.

What I do expect is some communication.
Once year vague promises of jam tomorrow at AmiWest, does not count as communication in my opinion.
I would also expect software updates when they are available.
The situation with Emotion I find quite incredible and a real kick in the teeth to both paying customers and the developers who did the work.

Cheers