Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?

Before I start my answer here, I will emphasise some points that some posters on this thread seem to be confused about:

1. Hyperion are solely responsible for the development of OS4.1 - no one else. They have made this clear many times in the past.

2. A-EON Technology is a hardware manufacture but also develops the Enhancer Software. The software's primary purpose is to fill in the gaps for A-EON's paying X5000, X1000 and A1222 Plus customers. Where OS4.1 falls short, the Enhancer Software compensates. This is part of A-EON's customer service to it's customer base who have paid their hard earned money for the hardware A-EON has produced over the years.

3. None of the software on the Enhancer Software is part of the operating system. It is developed independently to meet different commercial goals. The Enhancer Software enables A-EON to respond to the software needs of A-EON hardware users independently of Hyperion's OS4.1 roadmap. If events consume Hyperion's resources and they cannot develop OS4.1 for a period of time, the separate independent code base of the Enhancer Software means that A-EON's projects are unaffected.



I understand that there are a lot of users disappointed with the lack of OS4.1 updates.

There are some on this thread that seem to want to deflect the perceived anger/disappointment from the shoulders of responsibility of Hyperion to A-EON.

* If there are no OS4.1 updates: this is not A-EON's domain of responsibility.

* If AmiUpdate does not distribute system updates as regulary as some users like, once again that is not in A-EON's control.


What is A-EON working on?

The AmigaDeveloper.com Team has been working steadfastly for some time on improving the Enhancer Software. Software Updates are distributed to customers through the Updater tool. In fact the last updates were sent out to customers on 23 August and communicated here on this forum and AmigaWorld.net.

Last year, the Enhancer Software Core v1 was released free of charge to users at Amiwest. It featured in the Developer Conference. This Amiwest, A-EON is releasing v1.1 of the Enhancer Software Core free of charge.

The X5000 Plus will ship with the Enhancer Software V2. This large body of work has been primarily developed to compliment the X5000 Plus and it will be installed on the X5000 Plus. Of course, we are also aware that the wider OS4.1 community will benefit on it's release.

@amigakit

I think you totally misunderstood the anger of everyone in this thread, not only towards Hyperion but also towards A-EON.

You should read again the thread especially the messages explaining that you are acting exactly as Hyperion regarding communication.

The only thing I read in your answer is that you have nothing to tell, no news to inform us about the ESP, ...

You even talk about the X5000 Plus which I guess should be released at the same time the A1222 Plus will be releases (in 2029 or 2030 or something like that, no?).

You tell us that some people are working on some things. Great. We all already knew this since it's been like this for years.

So excepting telling us what is Hypersion's domain (we all already know this), nothing new.

@amigakit

Thanks for reply, as K-L said - it's not only Hyperion but also people need updates from A-EON...

As an example - AmiStore, is it true that there's absolutely no developers left to offer any commercial software via it? (actually I know the answer, but I want to still make this question public)

Also I miss updates for AmiStore software, I've received some bug fixes directly from developers due the fact that updates are almost impossible to get to AmiStore.

And don't get it wrong - it's better to have questions asked compared to complete silence.. at least the user base seems active :)

yes of course we want Hyperion to give us the time of day instead of fighting another political war yet again with Amiga Inc./ Cloanto dammit

I also understand A-EON has their hands tied and even if they have 'things' to say it always comes down to 'it' is waiting for AmigaOS work which falls to Hyperion once again

anyhow I'm still checking in all the time with popcorn to see my favourite OS and soap opera with my X1000 and classics by my side eh


@thread

can anyone that uses MorphOS give us a review on Wayfarer here compared to our current Odyssey. I tried setting up a separate thread for this but it got deleted

@328gts

No it did not, check the free for all forum.

@orgin

ah ok thanks I only ever see whats on main page

I am a regular user, not a developer or betatester. I purchased my MicroA1 near the end of 2004 and have installed every public release of OS4 from AmigaOS 4.0 Developer's Pre-Release Update 1 to AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 1.

I also purchased Enhancer Special Edition V 1.5 and installed alot of the content from that CD.

Some of my programs that worked in the past do not work now. For example Imagine and Real3D. Maybe something was blown away when I upgraded to AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition. I'll do more troubleshooting when I have more time.

---

I wish I could get some of the fixes that have been available to the betatesters.

I wish that we had more updates from Hyperion, A-EON and Trevor or Steve.

---
redfox

@amigakit

Matthew, I have no issues whatsoever with AmigaKit. You have always provided me with quality service, even though it involves shipping to Canada.

Thanks so much.

I would, however, like to hear more updates regarding A1222 Plus (Tabor). And, yes, I realize that this is a product of A-EON and not AmigaKit.

---
redfox

Hi Everyone,

I can understand the frustration. I should start by saying that I keep every Amiga I have ever owned, since my first Amiga 500, running 24 hrs a day, everyday of the year, until I upgrade to the next model that comes out.

So, my current Amiga (AmigaOne 500), has been running non stop since I bought it in 2011. In that time, I have had to put some parts in it, namely power supply (2 of them), 2 hard drives, and usb hubs etc. I have to say that the Radeon HD 5450 has never giving me a days trouble and the same as the sii5112 card as well. This goes to show how well the Sam motherboard was made (except for the couple of bugs it has regarding the onboard sound chip).

I am ready to by a new one. I have payed for the AAA bundle so I can get a Tabor when it comes out. My A1-500 is definatly tired and ready to be replaced. (This is the second longest I have ever had to wait on a new Amiga. The time between the Amiga 4000 and the AmigaOne Xe was a long time LOL.)

I say all this to say that the time it took for the Tabor was too long. A-EON should have had this computer selling at least a couple of years ago. Futhermore, OS 4.1 has been overdue for an update for like 4 years. I am frustrated with the update situation as far as OS 4.1 goes. I feel the enhancer package has been much better maintained as far as updates go compared to OS 4.1.

So, once this lawsuit nonsense is over, Hyperion needs to do updates at a minium and hey Hyperion, time for a major update!

Okay, my two cents, and looking forward to the Tabor.

I also want to say thank you to all the great developers who have brought us all this great software over the years. Thanks alot, and do not be discouraged. I (and many other users) are very appreciative of your work and your software makes AmigaOS fun and useful!

Yogi

@Mattew

Just to give you few answers to not deral Capehil's thread:

Quote:

That good and expected to be like this. The plan is the plan.

Through, you make it sounds that does not matter who and what ask you, you give a shit and even didn't think about thinking to change a little bit there or there when experience users and beta-testers ask for it. You will change "certainly" nothing does not matter who and when and what trying to explain.

That clear for everyone who needs an answer for their anger.

Quote:

Yep :) No one else plays a role in help of Warp3DNova progressing ?:) Not bug-reporters, not 3d party coders/porters making stuff for?

Sure, you pay, you decide. But wasn't you aware of gazillion bug reports we do about warp3dnova to Hans on Mantis, and that it's we, users which have "certainly not influence" on anything help to progress Warp3dNova for free (!), while you go to your "commercial objectives"? Aren't you see that progressing on Nova lately coming from exactly all the bug-reports from Mantis?

Anyway, that all fuzz and no problems. Hans works on, you pay for, that good.

Just i think everyone got the understanding now about what kind of communication to expect later and can give it a rest.

User bug reports and constructive feedback are of course most welcome. We encourage this to continue. Hans collates the bug reports and this feeds into defining the development objectives. He is just one very talented developer, he has unique skills and we do not have anyone else of his skill set to co-work on these projects. So we have to identify the most appropriate development needs and address them one by one.

The nature of your posts on this forum about our activities are not the way to go in providing feedback. Given the fact that we have a private beta forum and mailing list and your have direct access to email, I would suggest this is a better way of communicating these matters.

Furthermore, conflating the criticisms surrounding Hyperion's stewardship of the OS4.1 project with A-EON's separate Enhancer Software project simply leads to public confusion.

@kas1e
Quote:

I don't believe that anyone says that they do not matter. Everyone would approve that.

A company that creates a product needs to listen to the customers and users. Listen what they need and if this is part of their vision, give it to them. If a company doesn't do that, doesn't have a future, along with the products.

And if a company cannot/doesn't want, to give to the users what they require, has to give an open and honest explanation to the users-customers. The users-customers will not wait for too long with not a single information in the dark. At the end they will abandon the company and it's products.

IMO, a company has to find a balance on delivery of what announced, and if there are delays/problems has to communicate.

@matthew
The point you miss from the whole discussion here is not the blame game. No one blames AmigaKit and A-Eon about Hyperion's incapability to release updates. We speak about the lack of communication to the community. And this is not enough when you release something, like a news item.

But there is a need of communicating on:
- why something takes time?
- why you didn't deliver when you announced that you would?
- what are the next plans?
- what happened with projects you announced? Are they dead or active?
- even why you do something the way you do it, i.e. people might like to know why you implement the new datatypes library? The reasons and your vision.

In my opinion that's how people are going to understand how a company works, thinks and breathes, and not consider it as a dead body. That's how AmigaKit, A-Eon and Hyperion will inspire the community, and will not have people leaving it. The announcements will not keep people waiting for too long, and we saw the results.

And if you care about the platform, and you can't or don't want to work on a project, it might be good idea to open source it, instead of sitting on it. This might bring people to work and update it. And this will show that you care about this platform to become better.

@walkero

Spot on!!

But there is a need of communicating on:
- why something takes time?
- why you didn't deliver when you announced that you would?
- what are the next plans?
- what happened with projects you announced? Are they dead or active?
- even why you do something the way you do it, i.e. people might like to know why you implement the new datatypes library? The reasons and your vision.



And if you care about the platform, and you can't or don't want to work on a project, it might be good to open source it, instead of sitting on it. This might bring people to work and update it. And this will show that you care about this platform to become better.


@amigakit

How about donating the Radeon driver soucecode to the Morphos team. (or make a nice agreement) Your hardware sales (X5K/20 X5K/40, A1222) could benefit from this.. and your X5K users can use their X5K machines with a Radeon card and Morphos. Everybody could benefit from this. Think about it

@Mattew
Quote:

Yeah, that about our internal things, but users who not beta testers want to have some answers. They should not ask for them all the time, but just some honest and open answers from time to time should be enough.

For example, for now, everyone curious, what happens with promised hardware acceleration for Radeon RX and why it didn't released, while Amiboing guys on os4welt are said all done 1 year ago, they update emotion 1 year ago, and nothing was released, and no answer to them about why from AEONs side. And they pretty pieced off by that fact.

Are there any real problems why it can't be released now?

Another question everyone wants to know (and K-L, and Walkero, and Raziel, and Stateman, and me, and everyone else): is there any plan about when the next version of Enhancer will be released?

I.e. nothing hardcore, users just want communication. They not want to be in the dark with no answers.

And another question about updated zzd10h tools : as far as i aware Javier or zzd10h send the latest version to you, but they never released too. But they have some necessary bug fixes.

The problem is that under the hood and in beta everything may happens intersting and good, but USERS , casual users, have nothing to play with, and loose interest.

More of it, they ask question, have no answers and leaving in the dark.

@kas1e
It looks like the only solution is that every OS4 user has to become a beta tester.

@BSzili

I have been testing Linux kernels on my X5000 since i bought my X5000 in 2017. I try to help where i can and have applied for being a beta tester using the form that A-EON have setup on their website. (and i have send emails)

And yes i am not a developer, but a reply on my request or emails would be appropriate... but i have never had any response at all.

So becoming a beta tester is the same cup of tea as getting the latest updates regarding Amiga OS4.2

@amigakit

I think you misunderstood what people ask for. And do not shoot the poster (kas1e) because he (and this discussion) is not the reason for people being unhappy but the result of it.

Ask yourself... you buy a product that is costly and needs constant updates to be useful, even only partly supported (missing drivers in this case).

Then the company selling it to you becoming quiet for years not reacting on critisizm, no updates and not even any information. In this case even two companies are behaving like this.

What would you say? And you do not talk about something in the price range of f.e. a RPi.

Even if you are not responsible for the other company do at least your part. Inform people in a blog, f.e. monthly, say them what you are planning and what is planned when. And if something delays explain why. And offer bugfixes as soon as possible and help the few developers out there left as much as you can. Get software ready should have priority.

Most amiga users will be happy then (BTW in normal world the amiga companies would be long out of business). If I would buy a 2000 EUR PC that is not fully supported with no support I would sue the producer propably... So be happy that most buyers are very patient but it not helps you if they say nothing and just leave. As long people still express views in public at least they still care. If forums became quiet finally the platform is dead.

@Skateman
You misunderstood me. My point was that for a long time only beta testers have access to updates, while regular users are left in the dark.

@BSzili

I did, and you are right. We should all be a beta tester (and i think we all want to be, because its a hobby platform and there is nothing left to loose) Besides that, the installed base is so small that it can easely be done.

So bring on that beta builds

@thread

What is needed is a stern talk with Hyperion brass and developers at Amiwest with legal obligations to improving AmigaOS API.

If Hyperion cannot or will not cooperate, the other option would be to take AROS code and create an Amiga foundation to safeguard it future.

A team from all Amiga like parties can be involved in creating new open source components for AmigaOS, while the company’s could sell commercial software that uses those components.

Like the way Mozilla/ Red Hat has a commercial branch to fund further development of business software.

- just my humble opinion.