The Radeon SI VA driver is called RadeonHD_drv_video.library
I have no problem with enabling this file on Updater tool as a free download for anyone who owns Enhancer Software V2 or DVPlayer V54.
However, RadeonHD V5 will be also needed for video acceleration and that is a chargable item. RadeonHD driver had to be overhauled to make it VA ready. A lot of work and many months development time.
@amigakit If RadeonHD_drv_video.library requires RadeonHD V5 to work, then it makes sense to come with it, otherwise is useless.
It would be good, if possible, to see some clear packages, because right now it seems there are a lot of different ones, and it is getting confusing, with a clear description of what is included.
RadeonHD v5 will be available as a separated package from v54? Will Warp3D Nova will be a separate package? What would happen if someone buys the RadeonHD v5 as they did with the DVPlayer V54, and want/need to buy the v54? Are there going to be discounted?
Those who bought Enhancer 2, are they going to have any discount for v54 or for RadeonHD v5, or will they have to pay for the same things multiple times?
So, my question is, is the new RadeonHD_drv_video.library and the required by that RadeonHD v5 come in an update of the Enhancer 2 or the users were misinformed and they will be asked to pay more for the drivers?
All these were announced just a few months ago and there is no clear information on what is needed for someone who bought DVPlayer V54 to get full speed video playback.
Unlike the 29 Euro priced OS4.1, we want to make sure that the development costs have something contributed towards them (even if it doesn't break even at the time).
Important development, such as Video Acceleration is more often than not funded- A-EON doesn't like to rely on free lunches.
Video Acceleration needs many components to be already installed and the cost base to develop these is very significant: Warp3D Nova, Video Acceleration Library itself, the respective drivers for the RadeonRX and HD cards. Six years of hard work.
On Amistore and the AmigaKit website the DvPlayer product system requirements state: "RadeonHD v4 driver or better".
RadeonHD_drv_video.library is part of the VA library and that in turn is part of the Enhancer Software 2. It makes sense to add it to the next update of the ES, which will be v2.2.
Of course, users with Polaris (RX) cards can right now use DvPlayer V54 with Enhancer Software 2.1 to playback at full speed.
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Will Warp3D Nova will be a separate package?
Nova will never be sold separately. That is not the direction of travel. As Nova becomes more embedded into the system it will need more dependencies within the Enhancer Software and will be a dependency of other components in the Enhancer Software.
@amigakit Thank you for your reply, but actually, you do not answer my questions.
People who bought DVPlayer v54 and were promised fast video replay even on RadeonHD Gfx cards, five months ago (not 5 years ago), do they need to put their hand deep in their pocket again to buy RadeonHD v5, so to get what they were promised or not? Will they get a discount or not?
For the record I plan to buy the v54 system, just to avoid being charged for the same software multiple times.
Also, you didn't answer my other questions, on what pricing policy you will have for discounts based on other products of yours people already bought? Are you going to provide discounts or not? This way users who are not sure if they should buy something now or better wait will have the info to decide.
The questions I hope are simple ones. I am expecting answers to my questions and not something like "Hyperion did that 5 years ago, and they did the other 8 years ago."
People who bought DVPlayer v54 and were promised fast video replay even on RadeonHD Gfx cards, five months ago (not 5 years ago), do they need to put their hand deep in their pocket again to buy RadeonHD v5, so to get what they were promised or not? Will they get a discount or not?
I must agree with @Walkero as this is the same reason i bought DVplayer as well. I dont mind supporting software development at all dont get me wrong.. (i buy a lot of software)
I understand that driver development is costly but it wasn't made clear during Amiwest that an additional purchase was required to actually use the VA driver for SI cards.
So far I've spent well over £200 on Radeon drivers and Enhancer packs for just 1 system. Something drastic clearly needs to be done to expand the user base so that costs to the individual user can be lowered significantly. Making 100 A1222+ boards for pre-order customers and maybe some later clearly isn't going to cut it.
A collaboration with Elbox to make Mediator style OS4 compatible hardware should also be seriously considered since a lot of people seem to be prepared to spend considerable amounts upgrading their classic hardware in some way or another.
@all At least i as a beta tester can say, that Emotion/DvPlayer works correctly and plays videos fine with GPU support via va.library on the latest RadeonHD driver and all the related stuff.
Roman, thanks for sharing this. This information and what Matthew has said has got my attention as an owner of two X1000s and multiple RadeonHD cards.
I have held off buying the newest DVPlayer or the more recent Enhancer release(s) until all the pieces are out and the prices and capabilities of the software are clear. What I'm hoping to achieve is 1080p or better full speed video playback on an X1000, and preferably using the more than capable Southern Islands cards I already own. It sounds like, from what I'm reading, that progress has or is being made in this direction. Once it's clear what's being sold and for how much and that it's going to work as advertised, I'll be ready to buy into it. Of course, the price will have to fit my budget.
It was never revealed by Hyperion management if there was indeed a "hardware plan"
It's likely that Hyperion never had a hardware plan, but A-EON did. So while the 30 EUR price for OS4.1 FE doesn't make any sense now, it could have made some sense back in 2014 if Hyperion counted on the user base growing thanks to cheaper hardware. (Why they didn't change their pricing model in the meantime is beyond me.)
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The A1222+ project has the potential to double the user base
Mind you, I'd love to see that! After all, new users mean potential customers for my software But what will the sales pitch be? "Hello old Amigan, why not come back for the future? We have hardware for your that comes ten years too late running our very own clone of OS4 we call the System54!" I just can't see a selling point here.
The Tabor hardware was ready and completed by Varisys in 2014, it had to still go through beta test but not much has changed. Last year the BOM had to be updated due to obscelence of some components but essentially hardware remains ready.
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back in 2014 if Hyperion counted on the user base growing thanks to cheaper hardware
Internally they did not count on hardware because they were fully in control of the Operating System development and they knew this was not progressing at the required rate.
Hyperion then didn't file accounts- cardinal sin for a corporation. They presumably ignored correspondence about the failure, and finally were put into a process that ultimately leads to the Belgium state closing them down. So once again this does not represent a company serious about expanding the user base by finishing the Tabor ISO.
Final Edition was freudian slip when named? It was certainly priced as a fire-sale without seemingly any forward planning to development and investment. It briefly benefited from a few volunteers fourteen months ago releasing an update based on the remnants of bug fixes left on the cutting room floor. Software bug fixes stuck in perpetual beta test since 2014 that finally saw the light of day in Update 2.
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But what will the sales pitch be? "Hello old Amigan, why not come back for the future? We have hardware for your that comes ten years too late running our very own clone of OS4 we call the System54!" I just can't see a selling point here.
Once again: the hardware was essentially ready since 2015.
Customers don't buy a computer for the OS- they buy it for applications that run on top of the OS, such as your Rave.
However before getting there A-EON had to fill the holes in the OS through the Enhancer Software. OS4.1 has no native modern graphics card drivers for example: RadeonHD and ATIRadeon are not part of the OS, they are "third party" owned by A-EON. Warp3D/MiniGL with its fixed pipeline was not fit for purpose. Supposedly Gallium3D will be in OS4.2? A-EON's customers couldn't wait for that so Warp3D Nova has been developed to fill that need. Video Acceleration was built on top of Warp3D Nova.
So many other features need to be implemented going forward so the Enhancer Software remit is expanding. There comes a time when these advancements cannot simply be bolted onto OS4.1.
There comes a time when these advancements cannot simply be bolted onto OS4.1.
And here is the statement that at some point, Radeon drivers will work ONLY on System54 and the clear indention of A-Eon on what their plans were from the beginning, and what they actually want to achieve. And all these by charging the users multiple times for the very same software, locking them in different packages. And that's how after A-Eon releases that plagiarism OS called System54 will appear as the saviour of OS4 because they are the Angels and Hyperion is the Evil. And all that with your money people.
And there comes why he follows that version numbering and what he actually wants to do. It is obvious, isn't it?
@amigakit If only you ever talked and replied to very specific questions by saying what A-Eon will do, everything would be much better. But you choose always to talk against Hyperion, knowing that no one from their side is in this forum to actually say if you are right or wrong.
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Once again: the hardware was essentially ready since 2015
So, you failed to release it 2015-2019 (when we still didn't have the excuse of covid delays) and increase the user base. You took users' money a couple of years ago and you failed to deliver what you promised. And you try to persuade us here that your failures were because Hyperion does not provide drivers for RadeonRX cards, the cards A-Eon decided to support and pay for.
So you wanna persuade us that you talked with Hans, you agreed to pay him X amount of money to support RadeonRX, and you expected that Hyperion should do the same. So, why didn't you provide Hyperion with a lite version of RadeonRX driver, as it happened with RadeonHD? Then everyone would be happy, especially the end-users, for whom you care soooooo much.
I tell you why. Because of your statement at the end of your reply, and because you wanna bound the users to pay again and again for the same software of yours.
Matthew doesn't provide plans of cost reductions, based on what you already bought, because he clearly does not have ones. Like he did with Enhancer 2, where the buyers of Enhancer 1 didn't get any price reduction, and paid the same software again and again, and not only for updates. He trapped the users who bought DVPlayer and then they will have to pay again for the drivers, which they probably already paid through Enhancer, but as it seems, those drivers will not be included in a future update of Enhancer.
So, as I see it, Matthew will release Radeon v5 as a separate package to get your money from that, and then he will release it with System54 where he will include the drivers and the DVPlayer, the very same versions, and get your money for them again. And the prices of these packages will be kept high as hell. So, do not be surprised when the System54 will be released will cost more than what the Enhancer Package costs, so over 80 euros, maybe 100 or 120 euros.
Because, why not. Hyperion didn't provide RadeonRX driver.
And here is the statement that at some point, Radeon drivers will work ONLY on System54
So the current Radeon HD/RX driver release that users buy right now and install in their system will cease to work later on ? Thats clearly wrong unless Hyperion make some changes to OS4.1's graphics libraries. Customers buy a driver for the purpose it is advertised for and it does the task they paid for. They don't buy it and expect to get free drivers for life.
A-EON's future drivers will likely feature advanced features such as Multi Monitor support- not something that can be bolted onto to OS4.1 as it stands.
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And all these by charging the users multiple times for the very same software, locking them in different packages
RadeonHD 1 is not the very same as RadeonHD 2 (compositing added) RadeonHD 2 is not the very same as RadeonHD 3 (256MB memory limited removed and Nova support addded) RadeonHD 3 is not the very same as RadeonHD 4/5 (complete rewrite for Video Acceleration support)
Hans spent many months developing each version and you are seriously portraying that users are charged for a simple version bump?
If you want to see all the differences between Enhancer Software V1.0, V1.1, V1.2, V1.3, V1.4, V1.5, V2.0, V2.1 check out the official Wiki here. Only two of those Enhancer Software were chargable - the rest were free upgrades over 6 years!. Another free update is coming soon too.
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So, you failed to release it 2015-2019 (when we still didn't have the excuse of covid delays)
To date the Tabor ISO has not been given to A-EON- it is still not complete- nothing to do with an RadeonRX driver. Do you advocate release without it? I would have thought you know these details having worked closely with Hyperion.
I am sure you will recall that Hyperion in this period went through many months of being a suspended company pending being struck off- they could not legally trade. Then the Hyperion management all walked out- Team Lead first, then the Technical Director and then the Managing Director. Then Hyperion embrolied themselves with litigation that is still ongoing which goes on to this day.
You are seriously blaming A-EON for not releasing OS4.1 Tabor ?
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So, why didn't you provide Hyperion with a lite version of RadeonRX driver
RadeonRX Lite is the intellectual property of A-EON Technology Ltd. An agreement has first to be negotiated/executed by both parties to distribute this software on the OS4.1 ISO. With no team of managers, a handful of remaining developers and an undelivered Tabor ISO, would you hand over software without a legal agreement ? Besides there are many items in OS4.1 that are also A-EON's IP such as MediaToolbox, PCIgraphics.card, ATIRadeon.chip, RadeonHD Lite, Ringhio which all require quarterly sales reports. All housekeeping around these has long ceased from Hyperion.
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Like he did with Enhancer 2, where the buyers of Enhancer 1 didn't get any price reduction
Everyone that purchased the Enhancer Software Graphics Upgrade received a free copy of Enhancer Software V2. Enhancer Software V1 customers received V1.1 (free of charge), V1.2 (free of charge), V1.3 (free of charge), V1.4 (free of charge), V1.5 (free of charge) over a period of 3 years. Did users of OS4.1 who paid 100 Euros get OS4.1 "Final Edition" (aka Update 8) free of charge?
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Because, why not. Hyperion didn't provide RadeonRX driver.
They may develop and provide their own graphics drivers with Gallium3D in OS 4.2. So wait for that instead.
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He trapped the users who bought DVPlayer
We sold about three dozen copies so far. Almost all of those have Polaris RX cards so they are not "trapped". Anyone who feels aggrieved can email me. I remind you again that the System Requirements for both product pages on Amistore and AmigaKit state: "RadeonHD v4 driver or better. Enhancer Software V2.1 or better."
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he will release it with System54 where he will include the drivers and the DVPlayer, the very same versions
I very much doubt that the drivers and DvPlayer will stand still in development terms in future Enhancer Software releases.
Edited by amigakit on 2022/3/11 14:16:45 Edited by amigakit on 2022/3/11 14:17:54 Edited by amigakit on 2022/3/11 14:19:54
You are seriously blaming A-EON for not releasing OS4.1 Tabor?
I think he blaming AEON for not releasing Tabor hardware at all. Even without OS4. You lose everyone wanting to buy Tabor because it is just not acceptable anymore. And the choice of the CPU... but that is too late to keep saying about of course... And that fiasco with how it was "AA+ package" or what, with preorders, also vanished in dust :) and people just receive those packages without Tabor which they actually need, and not those booklets and disks :)
If only Tabor hardware were sold (and does not matter with OS4 or without), you then can blame as you wish Hyperion for not making an ISO for tabor. But at least you will be "clear" from any users blaming AEON for not releasing that dumb simple board for 7 years or how many?:) For now, of course, better to get sam460 of course, and not that never-ended tabor story. But it makes a refund for all those ones making preorders with that "aa+" stuff.
As for OS itself, sure, you want to replace the things in and make your own distro, but why you don't choose the route to replace really necessary stuff in? I mean, for example," rewrote "AmigaInput" and made it modern. Or, for example, port GDB debugger (as currently, only Hyperion provides you with SDK, which you can use to build apps for OS4, that kind of not honest to say they do nothing).
Or for example, rewrote graphics.library. Or for example attract someone on a payment basis to make a proper "euae" port with all fixes and new things added. Or for example, rewrote part in the os called "Screens", so it will have autoscaling based on warp3dnova or compositing or whatever.
See, there still a lot of important stuff to do, but that for sure not "list" command or something of that sort :)
Now, Trevor even owns Kernel, what is the problem to take the G5 Mac, and porting the kernel to it, and so we will have aos4 on powerful Macs for 100$? You anyway want to rewrite the whole OS too, so why not.
And why not create a new "newlib.library" then if that one is a problem for Tabor? Instead of spending time on "c" commands, porting fresh newlib.library from the ground and making it open source will help to expand and user-based and developers base.
Or, spend money on updating Binutils in adtools (as all the Aeon's programmers use it, and they need up2date stuff, it's not like Hyperion should do it all for free and AEON will use it). I mean, why do you choose to replace simple C commands, instead of really problematic parts?
There is a lot that needs to be done. Just this means proper management, discussing with others, and so. But you go your own route, maybe in end, that will also be something interesting.
Given you have distanced your company from Hyperion, including removal from your website in recent times of the Hyperion products:
Can the A1222 (Tabor) even be sold/distributed through any means without Hyperion's AmigaOS4.x based on any binding agreements currently still in place?
I think he blaming AEON for not releasing Tabor hardware at all. Even without OS4.
You are talking about a six digit sum of money. A huge risk to take - one that was done for the X5000 and that took a long time to get a working ISO. Many years after the hardware was manufactured and paid for in advance. Once bitten, twice shy.
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I mean, why do you choose to replace simple C commands, instead of really problematic parts?
We have one principal developer working on those- that is his passion. He loves creating commands from scratch! This is of course one hard working member of the Amiga Developer Team. It does not represent everything we are focussing on at all.
We have a range of developers working on very large projects, some smaller GUI tasks, some like making Gadgets and classes, some developer more involved projects too such as MultiViewer and Archiver.
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And why not create a new "newlib.library"
If anyone wants to help with a more modern port of NewLib, then get in contact with me.
Customers buy a driver for the purpose it is advertised for and it does the task they paid for. They don't buy it and expect to get free drivers for life.
And applications as well, like DVPlayer for example. But even that you didn't deliver it, yet. And you mentioned that if they want to have what they were promised they will need RadeonHD v5, which they will need to pay again. If not, please tell us so. Say that the DVPlayer buyers will get what they need to fulfil what the application should do, without the need to pay more.
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A-EON's future drivers will likely feature advanced features such as Multi Monitor support- not something that can be bolted onto to OS4.1 as it stands.
I am pretty sure your developers are capable enough to disable specific features if some component is not the version that is required. Things like that happen a lot in technology, and I am sure that you are aware of it.
What it needs is willingness, which seems that it doesn't exist on your side. So, I expect that you are going to use it as an excuse to exclude access to this software from users who will prefer to use the original AmigaOS 4 and not your distribution. And this is what splits the communities.
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RadeonHD 1 is not the very same as RadeonHD 2 (compositing added) RadeonHD 2 is not the very same as RadeonHD 3 (256MB memory limited removed and Nova support added) RadeonHD 3 is not the very same as RadeonHD 4/5 (complete rewrite for Video Acceleration support)
Hans spent many months developing each version and you are seriously portraying that users are charged for a simple version bump?
I would like to mention here that I value Hans work a lot and I believe he did a lot of changes on every release, and I am happy to pay for these changes. So for sure, I am not saying that you charged us just for the version bump.
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You are seriously blaming A-EON for not releasing OS4.1 Tabor ?
YES, YES, YES. I clearly blame A-Eon for not releasing Tabor, not the OS4.1 for Tabor. I don't expect from A-Eon to release OS4 for their hardware because there is Hyperion to do it.
But I blame A-Eon for: 1. Not having a clear plan and release dates that were followed 2. Not communicating with anyone any info on how things are proceeding 3. Not having the board in the hands of the users, even with an acceptable beta version of AmigaOS 4.1 4. Not being able to work with other companies because the ego is greater than the general good 5. Having you on taking the decisions, because clearly, your plans are different from what this community needs
And the thing that you keep blaming Hyperion without looking at your mistakes, and apologising, shows clearly what you try to achieve here.
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RadeonRX Lite is the intellectual property of A-EON Technology Ltd. An agreement has first to be negotiated/executed by both parties to distribute this software on the OS4.1 ISO. With no team of managers, a handful of remaining developers and an undelivered Tabor ISO, would you hand over software without a legal agreement ?
Ok, do you care to share with us why this agreement didn't happen? What was the reason?
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Everyone that purchased the Enhancer Software Graphics Upgrade received a free copy of Enhancer Software V2. Enhancer Software V1 customers received V1.1 (free of charge), V1.2 (free of charge), V1.3 (free of charge), V1.4 (free of charge), V1.5 (free of charge) over a period of 3 years. Did users of OS4.1 who paid 100 Euros get OS4.1 "Final Edition" (aka Update 8) free of charge?
Are you serious now? I am old enough in this community to know how many years Hyperion provided free of charge updates.
But let me inform you as well: AmigaOS 4.1 was released on September 2008, update 1 January 2010, update 2 April 2010, update 3 August 2011, update 4 December 2011, update 5 August 2012, update 6 November 2012. All free of charge for 4 years.
AmigaOS 4.1FE with 1/3 of the original cost price, was released in December 2014, update 1 December 2016 and update 2 December 2020, all free of charge, which I am pretty sure you didn't like at all.
And all this was the work of AmigaOS 4 developers who deserve a lot more respect than what you provide.
And I can tell you what happened in AmigaOS 4.0 if you want.
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We sold about three dozen copies so far. Almost all of those have Polaris RX cards so they are not "trapped". Anyone who feels aggrieved can email me. I remind you again that the System Requirements for both product pages on Amistore and AmigaKit state: "RadeonHD v4 driver or better. Enhancer Software V2.1 or better."
You see the "Almost" in your sentence, right? As you said RadeonHD v4 is stated as required, not v5. So, I return to my question in the previous comment.
So, either - your official pages and news items are accurate, and the users that have already RadeonHD v4 or Enhancer v2 are going to get the full performance of DVPlayer in their systems, with RadeonHD v5 released as part of the Enhancer, or provided to them free of charge - you were lying 5 months ago, and now you tell them "Oh, sorry, but you have to pay more for RadeonHD v5, because we did a lot of changes and Hyperion blah blah blah blah"
Please tell me what will be the path you will follow and what are your plans.
Many years after the hardware was manufactured and paid for in advance. Once bitten, twice shy.
Yeah sounds logical, but still releasing Tabor hardware and selling it out, with the words "Sorry, no OS4 port done by Hyperion for now", will be better than no release hardware. At least IMHO, of course.
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We have one principal developer working on those- that is his passion. He loves creating commands from scratch! This is of course one hard-working member of the Amiga Developer Team. It does not represent everything we are focussing on at all.
Then yep it sounds logical too. If that is his wish, then why not.
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If anyone wants to help with a more modern port of NewLib, then get in contact with me.
As far as I see Frederik is very capable and he updates newlib for os4 quite often. Maybe he will be in interest on payment basis made a new fresh port latest newlib from Linux to os4?
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But what will the sales pitch be? "Hello old Amigan, why not come back for the future? We have hardware for your that comes ten years too late running our very own clone of OS4 we call the System54!" I just can't see a selling point here.
