Yes. Debian Jessie may be a be a bit old now. But it at least it boot out of the box on an A1!
Debian Jessie for A1 has never been officially supported by debian. The installer also has a bug, it generates the boot file wrong. It has to be manually repaired. The last kernel versions for A1 were, as you wrote, 4.x. This was most likely due to the fact that the official kernel for Jessie was version 3.16 and 4.x as options. This does not mean that the newer ones do not work. Linux kernels and versions are assigned to debian versions and this is due to distribution and software policy. Newer kernels may cause problems with installed packages which may require an older (debian) version to work properly. There is nothing to prevent users from compiling newer kernels themselves, but only at their own convenience.
Quote:
>Adelie itself working on X5000 looks a bit experimental
Yes it is an experimental version. And that is ... disadvantage or advantage, but it is developed and you have new software versions. You can also use debian jessie on ppc as a base and possibly add packages from the "sid" archive dp 2019 or some "remix" but this will also be experimental and may give you more problems than Adelie.
Quote:
> In any case, the CD image only has a few files, the grub boot loader and files, with the rest being kernel, initrd and a big squashfss.
SquashFS is mostly used to run "live" operating systems. It can be unpacked, modified and similarly packed. It is a compact compressed whole, which is important for cdrom/dvd drives. If the whole system were delaminated on a CD, I think your drive would die after a dozen or so uses.
Quote:
>Mac PPC was still supported by Ubuntu it didn't always boot out of the box. And later Radeon drivers are only good for PPC64LE since BE support was depreciated.
I have not installed Linux on a Mac PPC. I have seen Adelie running on Mac PPC G3/G4 - it is possible that the drivers are working.
From my side with Adelie it is just fun. I like such topics Nobody else but me is probably not interested and will consider this as spam or a waste of time.
I just put the information here. Maybe someone someday will need such information, that it is possible to run newer Linux kernels on PEG (A1 I haven't checked yet), then he will find it here.
Back to the topic of macosx emulation. If someone wants a good new macosx emulation they will most likely have to run it with linux not AOS4. Plus on some newer version of linux , linux kernel and qemu.
Debian Jessie for A1 has never been officially supported by debian.
No but I can understand why. They would have had to compile an extra custom kernel as well as modify the ISO so it had boot block code. For the Pegasos it just needed a Forth boot file and compatible CHRP kernel. So obviously supporting the A1 was expecting too much. De facto or not the target platform for Debian PPC Linux is the Mac.
Quote:
The installer also has a bug, it generates the boot file wrong. It has to be manually repaired.
Is this my installer in the A1 Debian Jessie installer CD? I've since found an issue with incorrect inodes. But I'm unaware of any wrong boot file.
Quote:
Newer kernels may cause problems with installed packages which may require an older (debian) version to work properly. There is nothing to prevent users from compiling newer kernels themselves, but only at their own convenience.
I've got two installs so can use one to test it. I've also compiled my own kernel for the A1. Just the standard 3.16. But I wanted to add parallel IDE support for testing a drive as my A1 is the only computer here with a parallel port left.
Quote:
You can also use debian jessie on ppc as a base and possibly add packages from the "sid" archive dp 2019 or some "remix" but this will also be experimental and may give you more problems than Adelie.
It looks like things have improved since. Some PowerPC pages look a bit dated as they indicate otherwise. But the latest Debian is here as a port. A net installer so I don't know if it works but it should as it is recent.
SquashFS is mostly used to run "live" operating systems. It can be unpacked, modified and similarly packed. It is a compact compressed whole, which is important for cdrom/dvd drives. If the whole system were delaminated on a CD, I think your drive would die after a dozen or so uses.
Given the size it would be more practical to reconstruct a ramdisk which I have done before a few times. However for an OS4 install CD the OS is delaminated on a CD. It can't write to it but it can boot directly from it. Be interesting to see how fast it would be if the whole installer file system was unpacked to RAM and booted to.
Quote:
I have not installed Linux on a Mac PPC. I have seen Adelie running on Mac PPC G3/G4 - it is possible that the drivers are working.
I've booted Ubuntu 10.04 on a G4 laptop and it looked nice. It has wifi firmware issues preventing boot, that have to be worked around, even if you don't need it on boot. Don't recall installing it.
But, given even a G5 tower has limits on what Radeon cards can be installed, it probably doesn't matter that an R7 likely won't work normally as not many people would be using it.
Quote:
I just put the information here. Maybe someone someday will need such information, that it is possible to run newer Linux kernels on PEG (A1 I haven't checked yet), then he will find it here.
I rely on old forum posts to contain the info I need when fixing something again after a long while
Quote:
If someone wants a good new macosx emulation they will most likely have to run it with linux not AOS4. Plus on some newer version of linux , linux kernel and qemu.
Yes it would need Linux. With or without QEMU, but QEMU is emulation unless it can use KVM, so not the best for PPC on PPC. It's more likely OS4 would run in a Linux VM, than for MoL to run on OS4
adelielinux run in Pegasos2 (boot from cdrom ) live cdrom, base version : adelie-live-xfce-ppc-1.0-beta5-20240426.iso New kernel, rework of a few boot files. It works in text mode because I only have qemu and no graphics card. The kernel error warning may be because it is running on emulation. I have the same in debian 8 and linux kernel 4 and on amigaone emulation
It remains to be seen if this can be done for the A1
Ok it works in graphics mode, it should also work on the real PEG2. I didn't modify anything in the iso version. I used virtio-gpu under qemu. I added virtual-net for a test and it also works. The network works super fast. These are the values added by the new version of linux and kernel. The system loads a little slowly. I think I may have compressed squashfs too much or the emulation is slowing booting. It is possible that on a real PEG2 it will be better. The livecd version works as I assumed, without installing anything on the HD the system boots and is usable.
In your video there are a few crashes on boot. Surprised it keeps going Thought a kernel crashing on boot would end up in a kernel panic.
Ok just tried myself also. I had MOS setup from the terminal but forgot the command line I used Not sure where I saved the info. I also tried some GUI called AQEMU but it look too simple and I can't see where to plug in a rom.
So I managed to get it booting and crashing in firmware with INT errors and some x86 crash. Was confusing as it looked like x86 code crashing inside emulation which should have segfaulted QEMU. But I tried your line and got further. And got into GRUB. It seems to boot but was taking so long I gave up.
I found "Smart" Firmware to be confusing the way it handles folders. It uses space at one point and slash for another. Huh? Who designed this? Also I didn't know it had no history buffer. That's lame. Not very smart at all. Even the annoying buggy CFE on my X1000 has a history buffer!
Last night I also tried it on my X1000 but couldn't get it to work. I used my X1Boot editor to make it easier on my self. At first I added a new boot entry with a standard 5.15 kernel and ramdish using the boot args. But it couldn't find root device and dropped to initramfs. Then I imported ramdisk in, which is stripped of plymouth as it bloats too much, and converted to XZ as original 20MB is too large. It got further but then got stuck in a boot loop on some script. Will try text mode next time and see.
In your video there are a few crashes on boot. Surprised it keeps going Thought a kernel crashing on boot would end up in a kernel panic.
Depends on what's crashing. I think on pegasos2 Linux kernel has an error about some network related things which may also happen on real machine because the network driver uses some function it should not be using so the kernel warns about that. But it should not matter as the on board network card is not emulated anyway so it's not used.
Quote:
So I managed to get it booting and crashing in firmware with INT errors and some x86 crash. Was confusing as it looked like x86 code crashing inside emulation which should have segfaulted QEMU. But I tried your line and got further. And got into GRUB.
All of the AmigaNG machines have a problem with the BIOS emulator in their firmware which crashes on the default QEMU VGA ROM as it is compiled for i386 (because gcc does not support older x86) but the BIOS emulator can only run 16 bit x86 code. This is only a problem that you won't get firmware output on VGA but you could still boot by blindly typing the boot command or you can redirect firmware to serial by typing
" /failsafe" io
note the space after first quote, it's needed! Or disable default vga with -vga none and when adding a VGA device disable its ROM with ,romfile="" propery then you would not get that crash. Or you can use a real mode VGA BIOS compatible with the VGA device you are using via the romfile property. All this is noted on my qmiga.codeberg.page pages.
Quote:
It seems to boot but was taking so long I gave up.]/quote] What are you running this on? Maybe the CD emulation can be slow but should be faster when installed on a disk image.
[quote]Last night I also tried it on my X1000 but couldn't get it to work. I used my X1Boot editor to make it easier on my self. At first I added a new boot entry with a standard 5.15 kernel and ramdish using the boot args. But it couldn't find root device and dropped to initramfs.
Does this kernel have driver for the IDE controller or whatever the disk with the root file system is on? Or does it load that from the initrd in which case does the initrd contain the right driver?
I think e6500 is based on e5500 which comes from e500 and thus BookE too.
Running BookE code on BookS with KVM is known not to work. What might work is running BookS on BookS but then best results would be with same CPU so running G4 or G3 code on G4 host could work (using 64 bit host for 32 bit code is also problematic so anything newer than G4 might not run G4 code correctly,in particular different cache line size with dcbz and similar operations might cause problem).
Running BookE code on BookE host might work too but also untested so maybe does not work any more.
KVM is in the Linux kernel so any bugs should be debugged there not in QEMU most of the time.
It might be possible to run KVM on top of emulated PPC CPU in QEMU and experiment with that to find and fix bugs but it's very slow so nobody would want to do that so this should be tested and debugged by somebody with real PPC host and interest to run it.
Well I bought iFusionPPC. And it worked on my A4000/CSPPC233MHz. You needed the latest iFusionPPC Updates (1.3) and a special PowerPC.library (WarpUp V16) that used undocumented features.
I was able to successfully test Lightwave3D 7.5 on it and it rendered very fast compared to my original Lightwave3D 5 Setup on my 060.
Edited by zerec on 2024/8/9 21:09:34 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/9 21:11:23 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/9 21:12:08
Congrats! you are NUMBER ONE! The first person in two decades (??) I've seen able to make iFusion work.
So many questions....
Was that on just your A4K 060/CSPPC or have you ever gotten it to work on a NG machine?
Where did you get the magical v16 Warp lib from? Is it still available?
When it ran, was it really stable, usable and did it take advantage of the host machine's powers - memory, higher res, higher palette depth, network, etc?
Congrats! you are NUMBER ONE! The first person in two decades (??) I've seen able to make iFusion work.
So many questions....
Was that on just your A4K 060/CSPPC or have you ever gotten it to work on a NG machine?
iFusion for now only worked on the CyberstormPPCs.
Hedeon a good friend of mine made several attempts to make it work on PCI based PPCs. But no luck on this so far.
I contacted famous Mac Emulation Guru Jim Drew. In 2015/17 he posted still having the sources to iFusion we need foradaptation to newer Hardware. But recently he told me not to have it but maybe on some sort of tape backup. I even contacted CEO Paul Lesurf of Virtual Programming (VP)and got permission to adapt it as his company don’t do Amiga Stuff anymore. So if Jim finds the Sources we are allowed to adapt an maybe have the opportunity to have it on PCI PPCs or even stronger X1000/X5000.
@pjsQuote:
pjs wrote:@zerec
Where did you get the magical v16 Warp lib from? Is it still available?
That is not so complicated. It is on the original iFusion 💿.
@pjsQuote:
pjs wrote:@zerec
When it ran, was it really stable, usable and did it take advantage of the host machine's powers - memory, higher res, higher palette depth, network, etc?
Yes it was stable an it had the following features:
iFusion is an iMac emulatior for the Amiga.
The current specification is as follows:
* Support for up to 2 Gb of physical/Virtual memory * Supports AHI * Support for Hardfiles, CD-ROM drives and Partitions * Keyboard/Mouse support * Support for floppies and removable media * Support for Apple's built-in virtual memory * Supports on-the-fly switching with supported graphics systems (CyberGraphX * Support for 0S8.6 through 0S9.1 * Runs directly from Mac OS CD - no external ROM image required
System Requirements:
* WarpUp v16 (Supplied on the CD) * PPC card with at least 64Mb of RAM. * Cybergraphics v3 or later
** iFusion will currently not run on a BlizzardPPC due to an incompatibility with WarpUP/BlizzardPPC. This is being investigated by Haage & Partner/Sam Jordan.
Edited by zerec on 2024/8/14 13:11:31 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/14 13:13:40 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/14 13:14:33 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/17 5:37:19 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/17 5:38:16 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/17 5:39:01 Edited by zerec on 2024/8/17 13:20:05
Depends on what's crashing. I think on pegasos2 Linux kernel has an error about some network related things which may also happen on real machine because the network driver uses some function it should not be using so the kernel warns about that. But it should not matter as the on board network card is not emulated anyway so it's not used.
In this particular case it was a core dump or segfault as it tends to be called. In a post-boot dmesg log that's normal. But seeing a segfault during boot is not and I didn't expect the kernel would keep booting while reporting segfaults.
Quote:
All of the AmigaNG machines have a problem with the BIOS emulator in their firmware which crashes on the default QEMU VGA ROM as it is compiled for i386 (because gcc does not support older x86) but the BIOS emulator can only run 16 bit x86 code. This is only a problem that you won't get firmware output on VGA but you could still boot by blindly typing the boot command or you can redirect firmware to serial by typing
Ah, now that makes sense. I knew there had to be a reason for x86 registers being dumped on a PPC machine. I had forgot about the VGA emulator. It must really be old hat then. 16 bit would have been dead by the time the Pegasos was out. I suppose it does make it complicated. But real mode must have been more common than pro mode x86 for VGA BIOS.
Quote:
note the space after first quote, it's needed! Or disable default vga with -vga none and when adding a VGA device disable its ROM with ,romfile="" propery then you would not get that crash. Or you can use a real mode VGA BIOS compatible with the VGA device you are using via the romfile property. All this is noted on my qmiga.codeberg.page pages.
Thanks for the info. Yes I see that space. One of those Forth OF quirks I see.
Quote:
Does this kernel have driver for the IDE controller or whatever the disk with the root file system is on? Or does it load that from the initrd in which case does the initrd contain the right driver?
It does for internal SATA. But the installer needs to find CD or drive from a label. So it needs ramdisk with drivers. I gave it that but it still failed to find it. I had the installer on a USB stick plugged in. After that I repacked the installer ramdisk which still failed by looping around trying to mount installer. But, the installer ramdisk does have modules included, so may need deeper repacking with replacement modules from actual kernel.
This is pretty much what I did for the A1 Debian Jessie installer. Unpacked and rebuilt installer ramdisk with A1 modules, A1 files and preseed. In due time I will need to write up a script to do all this in an automated fashioned. It would make a good feature for my boot editor being able to import an installer and have it prepare a boot entry. So it could be plugged into a USB port and picked off a boot menu. Now this will help X1000 users but not (more?) X5000 users. However a script detailing the process can still be made portable.
News feed
OS4 Feedback forum
OS4Depot Feedback forum
Amigabounty forum
OpenAmiga forum
AmiCygnix forum
ABC shell forum
AmiKit forum
Cinnamon Writer forum
CodeBench forum
Digital Universe forum
Dopus 5 forum
E-UAE forum
Gnash forum
Ibrowse forum
JAmiga forum
Odyssey forum
OWB forum
Qt forum
SmartFileSystem forum
Timberwolf forum
TouchDevice forum
TuneNet forum
Unsatisfactory Software forum
Donate
