Request to AOS4 Developers

Hi,

I don't post very often, so I'm not too sure if this is the right forum. I suspect it could become a "hot" subject, if the moderators disagree, please place it in the right forum.

This post came about in regards to the 20 questions by McElwen. Would you believe it, the 20 questions actually came up on the "Team Amiga Mailing List", a list that hardly ever discusses the Amiga anymore.

This has gotten me to doing a lot of thinking. 2 very active members of that List are Dave Haynie and Skal Loret (I'm sure all the old-timers remember them), and the list was hosted by Gery Peake for many years. I'm sure you all remember his death some months ago.

What many of you may not know is that Dave, Skal, and Gary (also Fred, but can't recall last name) all were owed a good deal of money by Amiga Inc (W). They, like Bolton Peck (and others) got nothing. They were left holding the empty bag, and in all instances it has been quite harmful to their futures. They have all expressed their unhappiness in no uncertain terms.

So what has this got to do with my subject, "Request to AOS4 Developers"? It has everything to do with it. As a result of these 20 questions/answers and the TAML discussion, I have decided that if either AI or Hyperion releases AOS4 plus hardware, I am going to ask (on this website) the AOS4 developers a simple question. I am going to ask them if this is the release that they are in favor of and that they will get paid for. I am really going to want a straightforward answer from all of you.

It is our developers who have done all the work to produce this great AOS4 that I am typing this on. It is they who should get paid for the work. The 2 businesses (AI and Hyperion) have done very little, other than sit back and watch the developers work.

As much as I would like to, I will "NOT" buy a hardware plus AOS4 that does not include the developers approval! I don't care who owns the IP. If the developers aren't satisfied that they are being treated fairly, this is an immoral and unethical release. I couldn't live with myself, if a release was made against the interests of the developers.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@DonF

Wouldn't the fact that the developers continue working on
OS4 and producing executables implicitly suggest that they
support that code's inclusion and release in Hyperion's
Amiga OS4?

Unless, of course, they are all chained up in Evert
Carton's basement...

And look at the flip-side: if they didn't support the use
of their products, I'd imagine work would stop immediately
and a page like this would appear:

http://www.morphos.net/

PJS

@pjs

if they (developers) did not get paid for their work (once os4 is for sale and hyperion is making money for example) then that page might be a suitable comparison.

@pjs

>Wouldn't the fact that the developers continue working on
>OS4 and producing executables implicitly suggest that they
>support that code's inclusion and release in Hyperion's
>Amiga OS4?

I don't think that necessarily means Hyperion will treat them right. According to what I've read, they have contracts with Hyperion to work on AOS4.

They are currently fulfilling the terms of the contract, but that doesn't necessarliy mean that if Hyperion release AOS4 for some item of hardware (for example the Sam) that they will pay the developers or give them their percentage or whatever the contracts state

I'm not saying that Hyperion WILL treat them badly, or that Amiga Inc WILL treat them badly. I'm just saying that I want to know that the developers consider everything acceptable to them.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@DonF

I hope you don't get what I say now wrong, I am not trying to attack anybody. Note also (although it should be clear) that I do only speak for myself, NOT for Hyperion. This should normally go without saying, but usually it doesn't so I want to stress that point.

Quite plainly, though, I don't know how this all could be anybody's business but Hyperion's and the developers. In other words, it's none of yours, or anybody else. If either Hyperion or the developers want to complain about anything in their relationship, they could do so on forums or other means - there is enough possibility to make yourself heard these days.

For the record, I don't think ANY AmigaOS 4 developer has, so far, complained about any payment or other issues. I find it rather hilarious to demand proof of anything - to the best of my knowledge any country with a decent jurisdiction adheres to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty", so I don't see any reason for anybody to prove their innocence in this matter - if someone claims otherwise, the burden of proof is on him.

And even though it isn't anybody's business, I am being paid.

Something else that struck me is your claim that "Hyperion has done little else but sit back and watch the developers work". I find it disturbing how people can make such claims without any insight whatsoever into the development process. All of Hyperion have invested a lot of work themselves into the project, beyond "sitting back and watch the others work", and also a lot of money (contrary what numbers might be floating around, I know the true numbers). I would therefore like to ask you to abstain from any such statements until you have actual facts to back them up.

@pjs

Quote:

Damn, how did you find out ?

@DonF

This is a bit of hot potato, so as you indicated, I am left with no choice but to move it to the correct forum.

@Mikey_C

Thinking out loud:
?Some one truly concerned about developers, almost too noble to be true.?

I see no reason to assume developers are not getting payed, I?m quite shore if they were not payed they stop working on it this second.

@LiveForIt

er Developers being Played? and Prayed? sure you didn't mean payed?

@pjs
Quote:
I hear the meal rations are excellent.

@ssolie

Quote:
The grass is always greener...

@Rogue

[Begin Quote]

I hope you don't get what I say now wrong, I am not trying to attack anybody. Note also (although it should be clear) that I do only speak for myself, NOT for Hyperion. This should normally go without saying, but usually it doesn't so I want to stress that point.

Quite plainly, though, I don't know how this all could be anybody's business but Hyperion's and the developers. In other words, it's none of yours, or anybody else. If either Hyperion or the developers want to complain about anything in their relationship, they could do so on forums or other means - there is enough possibility to make yourself heard these days.

For the record, I don't think ANY AmigaOS 4 developer has, so far, complained about any payment or other issues. I find it rather hilarious to demand proof of anything - to the best of my knowledge any country with a decent jurisdiction adheres to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty", so I don't see any reason for anybody to prove their innocence in this matter - if someone claims otherwise, the burden of proof is on him.

[End Quote]

My apologies. I meant no offence to you or anybody else, and am sorry if it offended you. I wanted only to be certain that the developers were being treated correctly. I think that my AOne/AOS4 is wonderful, and want to purchase another hardware/AOS4 when (if) it becomes available. However, I want to certain that the developers are being rewarded for all of their hard work. You mention that it would certainly be mentioned on the forums if this is the case, so I am now reassured.


[Begin Quote]

And even though it isn't anybody's business, I am being paid.

[End Quote]

I wasn't asking this, as I didn't consider it to be my business. However, I am truly delighted to read that you are being paid.

Once, again I apologize for any unintended offence. Thank you for the response.


Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

Hi "Team Amiga"; (if I may use that term)



After reading post #5 by Rogue, how can ANYONE support (any of the!) Amiga Inc.(s)!?!


Hyperion Entertainment RULES!
The Amiga Developers RULE!!
Eyetech (Mr. Alan Redhouse (I've in fact dealt with him, but never met him)) RULES!!!
AOS4.x RULES!!!!
(micro)AmigaOne, pretty damn good, all things considered!


Now, all my positive energy to Hyperion winning, nay! trouncing, Amiga (st)Inc. in court this or more likely next year!!!!


(No settlements, HE has the winning hand!)

@DonF

Don, not all the developers expect to be paid or remunerated in any way. I don't know how many, but I would guess a large proportion are working for nothing and expect nothing more than recognition.

These are the people who are most likely to be offended if the results of their work are given away by a court to a third party.

BTW, the word is "PAID", for goodness' sake.

Hi @Rogue
And even though it isn't anybody's business, I am being paid.@Rogue

I hope more than the lawyers!

@Atheist

[Begin Quote]
Hi "Team Amiga"; (if I may use that term)

After reading post #5 by Rogue, how can ANYONE support (any of the!) Amiga Inc.(s)!?!

[End Quote]

First off, I'm afraid I don't deserve/wish to be thought of as "Team Amiga". I'm not very active on that mailing list; mostly just read and observe. They are more into politics than I am.

Second, I think I ought to clarify things. Although I did refer to both AI and Hyperion, it was mostly AI that I was concerned about. I thought this might be obvious from my opening paragraph, relating to the failure of AI to pay Dave Haynie, Skal Loret and Fred Wright.

I knew it could easily end up as a hot topic (which is why I started it in that forum), so I made an attempt to be equitable by also referring to Hyperion. My major concern, though, was AI as it is obvious they have a way of skipping out on their debts.

My only real concern was that the developers be treated correctly, no matter who was releasing AOS4. If they are happy, I am happy -- and I wish to purchase another hardware/AOS4 combination. I would not be able to live with myself, if I felt that AOS4 was being stolen.


To Tony: Well, I'm not privy to information regarding how each developer is compensated, or even if they are to be paid. Once again, if the developers consider everything acceptable, then I am happy.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@DonF

Quote:

None taken, I was merely trying to point out that if there was any issue with developers, these developers would make themselves heard.