For me it means that every time I want to use my SCSI flatbed scanner with ImageFX or use my SCSI hard disks for video recording with VHI Studio, I have to boot into AmigaOS 3.9. I would like to go all OS4, but it seems impossible now.
I already suggested to replace your old SCSI equipment with cheap new standard PC equipment which may eventually be usable with more than one machine.
Quote:
Not true, as this thread shows there are also power users using BPPC SCSI.
So many that it makes sense to let the others wait a few years more for OS4 until finally somebody has written a working BPPC SCSI driver? IMHO the majority of users waited long enough, it was decided that OS4 for classics will be released soon, you are not forced to buy it immediately, but you wont get a guarantee that unsupported hardware will be suppported in future so that it makes sense to wait some more years.
Quote:
How about other SCSI devices like flatbed scanners?
A SCSI flatbed scanner is archaic equipment. The typical computer user has an all-in-one printer/scanner with integrated USB card reader for less than 100 Euro. OS4 supports reading from USB cards, when you dont have USB equipment, you could use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader.
But in the OS4 Dev group [this is my sense] the opinion that SCSI is useless and dont important for OS4 over hand wins.
Thats your personal opinion. My personal opinion is that SCSI is dead (for the home desktop). The typical home desktop machine has SATA which is faster, cheaper, and supports DMA too.
Quote:
This is from my view a bad evolution .... Without SCSI on my next Amiga [OS4 based] .. it will no Amiga anymore for me.
Do I want to sell you hardware? No? Do I forbid you to buy a CSPPC or a PCI SCSI card for AOne? No? So why are you complaining?
Quote:
And please dont come with "cheap" IDE drives .. If i like cheap . i realy dont buy any OS4 HW !
Its not my fault when you missed to buy an AOne which offers you SATA and when you missed to buy a CSPPC which offers you UWSCSI. A cheap IDE drive is the perfect storage device for a cheap A1200.
Quote:
For the user that connect to here expansive 1000$ Amiga a 80$ IDE drive and is Happy is this no problem ...
The IDE drive is below 40 Euro. For 80 Euro you get the IDE drive plus the ATAPI DVD drive! How many thousands of Euros do you wanna spend for a developer that writes you an OS4 BPPC SCSI driver? I bet that an AOne or a CSPPC are cheaper than a fair developer payment.
Quote:
I would a NEW HW with the ability to connect an SCSI card to it and USE it.
There exists ZERO new hardware for OS4 ATM, thats a known fact we discuss here since years, this thread is about OS4 for OLD classic hardware, please start a new thread about new hardware for OS4 plus SCSI, I'd bet the majority of users would prefer SATA/PATA/USB2/FireWire over SCSI anytime, but maybe AInc will grant you or your preferred hardware manufacturer a license for new OS4 compatible hardware with SCSI support?
We try to tell you which hardware is supported by OS4 for classic machines and you complain about non-existing hardware. Thats pretty much OFF-TOPIC here IMHO.
So, how do you expect I install OS4 then? I have only SCSI/SATA CD/DVD drives and I certainly don't want to buy a crappy/slow IDE thing now because I never did. I don't see the aim to develop such an OS without supporting at least native hardware: sorry but my SCSI Epson scanner/Panasonic DVD-RAM are working perfectly with OS3.9 and will in the future.
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
Do you expect that Hyperion or whichever developer that would have to spend time doing such a driver, would be able to get food on the table due to the extra sales of the OS to on board SCSI only users? Or do you expect to get this task done even if they don't get anything back from doing it?
How about other SCSI devices like flatbed scanners?
A SCSI flatbed scanner is archaic equipment. The typical computer user has an all-in-one printer/scanner with integrated USB card reader for less than 100 Euro. OS4 supports reading from USB cards, when you dont have USB equipment, you could use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader.
Agreed. However, If the A1200 user want to Scan using usb then dont they need to spend a quite a bit money ?
I see at this:-
?93 for a Subway with poseidon 2.X (AmigaKit) + Shipping ?20 for Scanquix USB (Vesalia) + Shipping ?10 for a poseidon 3.X OEM keyfile upgrade
Can you buy FXSCAN any more for the IOUSB scanner module ? I don't think you can.
?123 Euros + shipping before you begin to source a usb scanner. I imagine due to the age of scanquix usb it will have to come second hand from ebay as it only supports.
Recently I paid ?0.99 for a SCSI Epson GT7000 on ebay + a 40 minute drive to go and pick it up and use it with betascan off aminet. Lot cheaper.
I guess you can get a combo scanner that scans to a usb stick / memory card. Epson RX6XX / RX7XX range spring to mind, then use a card reader like you said above. Still its a lot of money since the printer side of things may not even be supported by the 3.X / 4.0 amiga printer drivers or turboprint7 not to mention the scanner side of things.
So, how do you expect I install OS4 then? I have only SCSI/SATA CD/DVD drives and I certainly don't want to buy a crappy/slow IDE thing now because I never did.
What about attaching your SCSI equipment to the CSPPC UWSCSI controller instead of the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI controller?
Do you expect that Hyperion or whichever developer that would have to spend time doing such a driver, would be able to get food on the table due to the extra sales of the OS to on board SCSI only users? Or do you expect to get this task done even if they don't get anything back from doing it?
Following your reasonning, that is true for the entire OS4: given the few amount of users that have the required hardware to use OS4, I am not sure that will give food to anyone. But I disgress. I expect to buy a product with the drivers I need to install/use it, that's all. Difficult to understand? For the moment I can use my scanner on the PC with USB (impossible with A1/OS4, no USB driver) and on the A4000T with SCSI (impossible with A4000T/OS4 no USB/SCSI driver). I see no reason to change to a product that do not met my requirement(s) be it called AmigaOS4 or whatever. I am ready to pay for an usbscanner.device or a scsi.kmod if that will exist in the future.
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
So, how do you expect I install OS4 then? I have only SCSI/SATA CD/DVD drives and I certainly don't want to buy a crappy/slow IDE thing now because I never did.
What about attaching your SCSI equipment to the CSPPC UWSCSI controller instead of the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI controller?
And thus killing the only advantage of using UWSCSI, speed? No thank you. But good try.
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
TetiSoft wrote: The IDE drive is below 40 Euro. For 80 Euro you get the IDE drive plus the ATAPI DVD drive! How many thousands of Euros do you wanna spend for a developer that writes you an OS4 BPPC SCSI driver? I bet that an AOne or a CSPPC are cheaper than a fair developer payment.
How many millions was it spend for developping an OS to about 1000 persons? I understand you probably have to create a driver de novo for the BPPC SCSI but for the 3000T/A4000T, it was included with OS3.1, so you have its source I presume?
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
Well if you're interested in paying for it then find the 10 or so people interested in the same drivers as you and a developer that you pay a monthly salary to for one or a few months then.
A SCSI flatbed scanner is archaic equipment. The typical computer user has an all-in-one printer/scanner with integrated USB card reader for less than 100 Euro. OS4 supports reading from USB cards, when you dont have USB equipment, you could use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader.
Agreed. However, If the A1200 user want to Scan using usb then dont they need to spend a quite a bit money ?
I see at this:-
?93 for a Subway with poseidon 2.X (AmigaKit) + Shipping ?20 for Scanquix USB (Vesalia) + Shipping ?10 for a poseidon 3.X OEM keyfile upgrade
Can you buy FXSCAN any more for the IOUSB scanner module ? I don't think you can.
?123 Euros + shipping before you begin to source a usb scanner.
Sorry, my explanation was incomplete. Here is the missing part:
You dont need any scan software to use some USB printer/scanner combos which include a card reader/writer. The scanner scans into a JPEG file on the card and the card appears as a volume on Workbench...
You may be able to use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader which is cheaper than an USB card for a classic Amiga, and many users may not need USB to read a card when their home network includes a second machine with card reader and Samba.
TetiSoft wrote: A SCSI flatbed scanner is archaic equipment. The typical computer user has an all-in-one printer/scanner with integrated USB card reader for less than 100 Euro. OS4 supports reading from USB cards, when you dont have USB equipment, you could use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader.
My archaic SCSI equipment (SCSI scanner, SCSI DVD-RAM, U320 HDDs) are running reliably, so, really, I don't see why I should change them. The typical computer user has an OS with support for USB scanner and printer.
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
> > > > the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI are not supported. > > > So, how do you expect I install OS4 then? > > > I have only SCSI/SATA CD/DVD drives and I certainly don't > > > want to buy a crappy/slow IDE thing now because I never did. > > What about attaching your SCSI equipment to the CSPPC > > UWSCSI controller instead of the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI > > controller? > And thus killing the only advantage of using UWSCSI, speed? No thank you. But good try. You could copy the OS4 install CD to a harddrive partition when you dont want to attach a CD/DVD drive to either the motherboard IDE port or the CSPPC UWSCSI port. The OS4 installation process uses the volume name to access the install CD so this should work without problem IMHO.
> > > > the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI are not supported. > > > So, how do you expect I install OS4 then? > > > I have only SCSI/SATA CD/DVD drives and I certainly don't > > > want to buy a crappy/slow IDE thing now because I never did. > > What about attaching your SCSI equipment to the CSPPC > > UWSCSI controller instead of the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI > > controller? > And thus killing the only advantage of using UWSCSI, speed? No thank you. But good try. You could copy the OS4 install CD to a harddrive partition when you dont want to attach a CD/DVD drive to either the motherboard IDE port or the CSPPC UWSCSI port. The OS4 installation process uses the volume name to access the install CD so this should work without problem IMHO.
And then, how I use the SCSI DVD(-RAM)/scanner? Is the mk68 scsi.device supported/emulated under OS4?
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
My archaic SCSI equipment (SCSI scanner, SCSI DVD-RAM, U320 HDDs) are running reliably, so, really, I don't see why I should change them.
You are allowed to use the CSPPC UWSCSI port to use your SCSI equipment. But its your decision of course. Quote:
The typical computer user has an OS with support for USB scanner and printer.
The typical OS4 user has an OS which includes DEVS:usbprinter.device and waits if somebody writes a DEVS:usbscanner.device or not, some scanners work without any scan software.
Well if you're interested in paying for it then find the 10 or so people interested in the same drivers as you and a developer that you pay a monthly salary to for one or a few months then.
Come on, Hyperion probably has the source code of this driver (included in OS3.1).
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
My archaic SCSI equipment (SCSI scanner, SCSI DVD-RAM, U320 HDDs) are running reliably, so, really, I don't see why I should change them.
You are allowed to use the CSPPC UWSCSI port to use your SCSI equipment. But its your decision of course. Quote:
The typical computer user has an OS with support for USB scanner and printer.
The typical OS4 user has an OS which includes DEVS:usbprinter.device and waits if somebody writes a DEVS:usbscanner.device or not, some scanners work without any scan software.
Last time I tried (update3), the printer was not recognized (was working with TurboPrint). Will retry with Final.
Bye, TMTisFree
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." (Napol?on Bonaparte) "I would love to change the world, but they won?t give me the source code." (Unknown)
How many millions was it spend for developping an OS to about 1000 persons?
You know in advance how much copies will be sold? Interesting. Then we can close this thread which was thought to tell interested people which features/drivers are present which could eventually change the number of copies.
To answer your question, I dont know how many millions the other developers will earn, I only know my own contract. AFAIK it was made public in the AI vs Hyperion court documents, maybe somebody can post the URL so you can verify if I'll be rich next month or not.
Quote:
I understand you probably have to create a driver de novo for the BPPC SCSI but for the 3000T/A4000T, it was included with OS3.1, so you have its source I presume?
The A3k/A4kT SCSI driver sources exist, yes, unfortunately the binaries dont work, the reason is unknown (IIRC we excluded known possible reasons and created a non-DMA driver but this didnt work). And until today I assumed nobody would really need an A3k/A4kT SCSI driver for OS4 just because the only possibility to run OS4 on A3k/A4kT is to install a CSPPC which has a supported UWSCSI port which is faster anyway.
Last time I tried (update3), the printer was not recognized (was working with TurboPrint). Will retry with Final.
There exist different protocol flavours for USB printers. usbprinter.device supports the unidirectional and bidirectional variants but not the vendor specific and IEEE 1284.4 variants. IIRC the latest published version does not refuse to use unsupported variants (but it doesnt work of course), the current version writes an error message into T:USB.log.
My old Canon S400 works with usbprinter.device, parallel.device, pit.device (parallel port of the MultiFaceCardIII), a1parallel,device, envoyprint.device and lpr.device here, with TurboPrint.
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