AmigaOS 4.x

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AmigaBlitter

AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/4 23:12 #1

Quite a regular

Just a question to the developers: will AmigaOS 4.x maintain the compatibility with the old classic amiga software?

thank you

MichaelMerkel

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 0:15 #2

Not too shy to talk

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
Just a question to the developers: will AmigaOS 4.x maintain the compatibility with the old classic amiga software?

i don't think so - and actually also don't hope so.
amiga os4.x has to go on and drop some of the old burdens. if memory protection will envolve further this will result in some no-longer-working older software automatically i guess.

for running old software euae has to be used finally.

byebye...

Michael Merkel

(Michael.Merkel@gmx.net Home)
Member of Amiga-Freunde Pfalz, OS4 Welt

Chris

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 1:48 #3

Amigans Defender

@AmigaBlitter

If it is system-friendly (ie. goes through the OS rather than hitting the hardware itself) then it should work.

Amigamancer

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 4:22 #4

Just popping in

Quote:

MichaelMerkel wrote:
@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
Just a question to the developers: will AmigaOS 4.x maintain the compatibility with the old classic amiga software?

i don't think so - and actually also don't hope so.
amiga os4.x has to go on and drop some of the old burdens. if memory protection will envolve further this will result in some no-longer-working older software automatically i guess.

for running old software euae has to be used finally.

byebye...

I just want to say that i find this VERY sad... Who is going to write new and decent apps and games for OS4? How many skilled developers are still with us?
I might sound a little retro but euae is not a real option for classic Amigas.

tonyw

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 5:11 #5

Quite a regular

@Amigamancer

There is no reason for future versions of OS4 to support 68k programs. They are already supported by existing packages like UAE, AmigaForever, etc. No improvements to OS4 could improve the old programs anyway.

The sooner we leave the old baggage behind, the sooner we can incorporate some REAL improvements, like better graphics, better *nix compatibility, etc. We can't move forward from here because of the old 68k compatibility issues. I feel like the dog in the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons - can't get past the "Rope Limit".

cheers
tony

Raziel

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 8:56 #6

Home away from home

@Amigamancer

Quote:

I might sound a little retro but euae is not a real option for classic Amigas.

You don't need eUAE to run classic program/games on a classic
system, just put in the disk and run them.
(if you have a high end system and programs refuse to run, it's
not AmigaOS3.x fault either to not support them anymore, isn't it?
If you want to play games - EVERY game - try out WHDLoad)

Furthermore, as often stated, AmigaOS4 is NOT developed to
act as an exchange to (e)UAE and/or any other "amiga emulator"
out there, it's a NEW OS, featuring NEW components.

It's getting boring to hear reasons why old/classic software
must be supported by AmigaOS4 ... use your classic for them
and enjoy the NEW AmigaOS4 with all the NEW stuff coming for it.

I, for one, am glad that every backward compatibility to
READ hardware banging stuff READ wasn't even considered
anymore at a certain point of development.
Why fix the errors of others?

Looking forward to new awesome features of furutre AmigaOS4.x

--

game box/art scans
scummvm infrequent builds

AmigaBlitter

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 11:29 #7

Quite a regular

I don't want to loose classic os compatibility. Many i've heard don't want to loose this option. As you can see in many you tube videos, the classic applications compatibility is one of the most pubblicized OS4 feature.

Rigo

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 11:39 #8

Supreme Council

@AmigaBlitter

On the classic you will always have 100% compatibility, regardless of what OS4 leaves behind. Simply boot back into Workbench 1.2 and play all the games you want...

Whether your hardware allows you to play 20 year old games is another matter though...

Simon

Outcast

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 12:01 #9

Quite a regular

@Rigo

And on that issue...

I cant even successfully install win98 on my new(ish) x86 mobo.

IINM I even stated waaaay back at the beginning of the Os4 dev curve that I believe we should dump all old apps and start again.

Are we nearly there yet ?

corto

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 13:50 #10

Not too shy to talk

@Amigamancer

Quote:

I just want to say that i find this VERY sad... Who is going to write new and decent apps and games for OS4?

Maybe the same developers that already make programs for OS4 ? Who do still develop only for 68k today ?

Samurai_Crow

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 18:22 #11

Just popping in

@Raziel

Quote:

Raziel wrote:
@Amigamancer

Quote:

I might sound a little retro but euae is not a real option for classic Amigas.

You don't need eUAE to run classic program/games on a classic
system, just put in the disk and run them.
(if you have a high end system and programs refuse to run, it's
not AmigaOS3.x fault either to not support them anymore, isn't it?
If you want to play games - EVERY game - try out WHDLoad)

-snip-

WHDLoad only works under 3.x and doesn't work under 4.0 due to the fact that the emulator in 4.0 doesn't do vector base relocation.

AmigaBlitter

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/1/5 20:56 #12

Quite a regular

The 68k support could be useful for applications porting, for testing, comparing and other things. Aladdin4D for example, you can look at the code and see what really does on the 68k environment. How many application exist for the 68k enviroment? What about "Petunia"? Will be abandoned?

Antique

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/12 13:52 #13

Home away from home

@AmigaBlitter

I do hope os4 drops the backward compatibility. We need to develop os4 further into a modern os,with modern features. We need a better gfx system,better memopry protection etc,

But i don't agree with raziel saying that os4 is a new os. Its an evolution of the classics

X5000

Slayer

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/12 16:27 #14

Quite a regular

@All

I think it's getting to the stage that most people interested in this retro movement were hardly even around when the Amiga was in the spotlight... and then you have the others returning to the Amiga out of curiousity and then discovering there is whdload and thousands of free games to play trying to plead for support (the latter is a seriously cynical viewpoint... lol)

I've never understood why people insist on holding things back with this 'one system should do it all' mentality or with this emulation attitude that a modern OS creation should provide for the games and apps of yesterday...

It was remarkable alone that it was released for the classic PPC...

The developers have my complete support to let go of all the restrictions potentially present and just go forward...

and if we lose a few supporters based on this reality check I for one won't lose any sleep over it... they'll just lean further in another direction and hound them with similair requests instead...

@AmigaBlitter
anyway AmigaBlitter although everyone I am sure understands your simple inquiry, at times it can stir slightly more emotional responses...

I've been an Amiga User since 1986 for example and I've never once concerned myself with backwards compatiability...

~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

Hans

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/12 17:17 #15

Home away from home

@AmigaBlitter

It's likely that there will be some sort of sandboxed environment for legacy apps. Seeing as OS 4.0 already has a 68k JIT emulator, I see no reason to suddenly remove it.

I hope that the sandbox and compatibility break is high on the priority list (but below the new graphics system).

Hans

Raziel

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/12 19:24 #16

Home away from home

@Samurai_Crow

My point was, one can use WHDLoad on OS3 and eUAE + WHDLoad
on OS4, everything covered

--

game box/art scans
scummvm infrequent builds

Snuffy

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/12 22:03 #17

Just can't stay away

Hi @tonyw

I agree with you. The Apple Corportion had to deal with this back in '80s when the Apple II-E was replaced with MacIntosh. It pissed off a lot of users in Silicon Valley, but progress in the hardware. I could care less what happens to 68K; can we just move along into the future!

LiveForIt

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/13 13:00 #18

Home away from home

@AmigaBlitter

We have been talking about SMP for a while,

And it's clear to me that no AmigaOS4.0 program can be supported by exec whit smp support, the only possibility is to emulate older programs, and if so then 68k emulation might be included in OS4.0 emulation.

Edited by LiveForIt on 2008/4/13 18:05:05

(NutsAboutAmiga)

Basilisk II for AmigaOS4
AmigaInputAnywhere
Excalibur
and other tools and apps.

Hans

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/13 15:58 #19

Home away from home

@LiveForIt

Quote:

LiveForIt wrote:
@AmigaBlitter

We have been talking SMP for a while,

And it's clear to me that no AmigaOS4.0 program can be supported by exec whit smp support, the only possibility is to emulate older programs, and if so then 68k emulation might be included in OS4.0 emulation.

I think that you could design an SMP system that supported existing OS 4.0 software, but it would suck. Every time a program called forbid(), all cores would have to be stopped, killing performance. It would be much better if they did it properly.

Hans

redfox

Re: AmigaOS 4.x

Posted on: 2008/4/15 5:10 #20

Quite a regular

@all

I've been watching this thread for the last few days, and I'm wondering what you guys mean by compatibility.

For instance, I can see that it would be pointless to try to attain 100% compatibility with every Amiga Classic game.

I'm wondering specifically about 68K applications which did attempt to follow the guidelines, like IBrowse 2.4, Final Writer 97, AmigaAMP, TVPaint, Personal Paint, Real3D, MakeCD, etc. All the ones I mentioned run just fine directly from my OS4 July 2007 Update Workbench. I think it would be a real shame to have to run any of these programs from E-UAE.

I don't expect to run any of these programs forever, but I cannot foresee replacements in the immediate future.

You see, I'm not a developer or a beta-tester, so I don't know what is coming. My crystal ball is kind of cloudy these days.

---
redfox

Edited by redfox on 2008/4/15 5:34:15

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