One of the weaknesses of the series 1.x of Digital Universe is that is in English only. Many have asked will it ever be localised and the answer is it will be from version 2.x.
There are certainly too many text strings to have localisation in the next version, 1.7. But work is in hand to localise for v2 onwards.
I am practising localising skills with a much simpler GUI application that is a related product, 3D Stars. That is pretty much localised already.
So anyone who wants these applications in their own language and is able to help with catalog files please contact me.
So far I have translators helping for:
French Danish Greek German Spanish Hungarian
I will of course update this list as I hear from anyone wanting to do such translations.
Anyone wanting to release a third party catalog file is also welcome to do so and I will provide the necessary .cd files to them at any time without having to wait for an official update of DU or 3DS to be released.
Edited by BillE on 2009/4/23 20:30:21 Edited by BillE on 2009/4/24 11:47:47
You could always use the method I use. Just put the .cd files in the archive with the program and then users who are able to can translate the program for you and if they want the catalog(s) to be included with your program then they can e-mail you the .ct and/or .catalog files.
If you reread Bill's post you'll notice he already have translator for french... And it's me (or to be more precise : us at ATO-fr , I think your help will not be unnecessary given the importance of the project), I told about my contact with Bill on our ML (or was it on the french OS4 ML?) some weeks ago.
@Bill
It's now some days I did not heard about you, is your "simpler GUI" going on well ?
I would volunteer on the german localisation, but as others have already mentioned, i would need to know the amount of work involved and if there would be a deadline as i don't have that much time/possibilities on my hand.
Thanks for the response, I was rather disappointed this morning to have no emails, no PMs and not even any comments on the thread.
To clarify the amount of work etc.
3D Stars is small, the .cd file is small and not likely to change too much. I already have both French & Danish translations but would like a few more before finishing and releasing it.
As has been suggested if the .cd file is included in the archive people can then do a translation if they want at any time.
As for Digital Universe the next version (1.7) will not be localised. I am looking more long term (v2.x)and am interested in getting contacts.
The GUI is huge but I intend to split up the work and make a start soon on parts of the program I have made .cd files for. The workload will in total be quite a lot but I intend to use several .cd files so that each section can be done slowly. Eventually I will combine all the .ct files to make one large catalog or would using several catalog files be better ? I am rather new to the entire concept of localisation.
Another thing I would want to discuss with translators is whether or not large sections of code would actually need translating.
In "English" the constellation names (official ones not common names for asterisms like The Plough) are not English at all but Latin. So would the Latin be international or do different countries use their own names for such things. Likewise many of the star names are Arabic, so maybe should remain as they are. Other star identifications are in the form of Greek letters followed by the Latin genitive, again this would probably not get translated - or would it ?
The localisation is planned only for the GUI and application itself, I believe this is now normal practice. I do not expect anyone to take on the task of translating all the accompanying Guide files which would be a few decades of work in itself ! Though anyone foolhardy/brave enough is welcome to try
The Guide files do need a lot of updating in English so any translation would be a moving target and not something to realistically aim for at the moment.
I tend to collect email frequently and only check websites now and again so it is better to contact me by email or use the Contact Us form on the Digital Universe web site rather than PM.
In "English" the constellation names (official ones not common names for asterisms like The Plough) are not English at all but Latin. So would the Latin be international or do different countries use their own names for such things. Likewise many of the star names are Arabic, so maybe should remain as they are. Other star identifications are in the form of Greek letters followed by the Latin genitive, again this would probably not get translated - or would it ?
I'd say you should allow for translation of star names and constellation names. I believe it varies a lot from language to language whether the Latin or a native name is used. In Danish, what you know as the Big Dipper is called Karlsvognen - the Chariot of Charles . And many other constellations have the name you also use, but translated to Danish; e.g. Cygnus is Svanen - The Swan. Stars more often use the Latin (or Arabic etc.) name, but we still have some with native names as well, e.g. Stella Polaris, which we call Nordstjernen - The North Star (which I believe is also used in English sometimes?).
As for the ones you mention with Greek letters and a Latin genitive, I think they would all use the same names in Danish, but normally the Greek letter would be replaced by its name in Latin letters, e.g. Alpha Centauri, not α Centauri.
In short, although I know this will come back on my own head , you'd better let the lot of them be localized.
I'd say you should allow for translation of star names and constellation names. I believe it varies a lot from language to language whether the Latin or a native name is used.
It is safest to add all the strings to a .cd file then, even if maybe some will not be translated, but at least there will be the option to do so if appropriate.
Quote:
In Danish, what you know as the Big Dipper is called Karlsvognen - the Chariot of Charles .
I did mention "The Plough" as being a common name and not one of the official ones that DU would use. BTW It is only the Americans that call it The Big Dipper, in 'English' English it is The Plough and we even called it Charles' Wagon in the distant past. I had forgotten that name until you mentioned the Danish equivalent. In French it is le "Chariot". I do expect these local names to change with country but was not sure about the official Latin ones that DU uses.
Quote:
And many other constellations have the name you also use, but translated to Danish; e.g. Cygnus is Svanen - The Swan.
I did think that some may be used like that, using a local rather than Latin name. How does the Latin genetive work in your language as used in a star name such as Alpha Orionis ?
Quote:
Stars more often use the Latin (or Arabic etc.) name, but we still have some with native names as well, e.g. Stella Polaris, which we call Nordstjernen - The North Star (which I believe is also used in English sometimes?).
So the star names would not translate then if the Arabic is still used, but I wonder if that is the same for all languages ?
Things like The Pole Star / North Star are common names not used by DU but Polaris would still be Polaris.
Quote:
As for the ones you mention with Greek letters and a Latin genitive, I think they would all use the same names in Danish, but normally the Greek letter would be replaced by its name in Latin letters, e.g. Alpha Centauri, not ? Centauri.
On screen the characters are shown, DU uses a custom font as things like ? were not available when originally written. However that would stay the same but in lists and windows the Greek letters are spelled out in Lain characters, it is these occurences I was wondering about. Though I guess Alpha is the same in most languages ?
Quote:
In short, although I know this will come back on my own head , you'd better let the lot of them be localized.
Yes I can provide all the strings and whether they get translated or not is up to the translator.
Though I guess Alpha is the same in most languages ?
In Swedish and Finnish that would be "Alfa" if I'm not mistaken. Maybe you can add these to the .cd file as well? IIRC there are not that many letters in the Greek alphabet.
> In Swedish and Finnish that would be "Alfa" if I'm not > mistaken. Maybe you can add these to the .cd file as > well?
It looks as if I should, there do seem to be a few differences though not many.
That brings me to another issue I only just thought of.
DU uses a custom font which allows the use of Greek characters. I have pasted below the original information from Dan Charrois who originated DU.
I already found one probl;em that character 160 is used for a ? these days and NList did not show it - but the class was altered by the maintainers to allow the use of such characters. So that has been fixed.
/* I thought I'd document the ASCII codes for DU.font/9. Basically, it consists of the ECMA-94 Latin character set, with the following replacements: 160 - A0 - a - alpha 161 - A1 - ? - beta 162 - A2 - ? - gamma 163 - A3 - ? - delta 164 - A4 - ? - epsilon 165 - A5 - ? - zeta 166 - A6 - ? - eta 167 - A7 - ? - theta 168 - A8 - ? - iota 169 - A9 - ? - kappa 170 - AA - ? - lambda 171 - AB - ? - mu 172 - AC - ? - nu 173 - AD - ? - xi 174 - AE - ? - omicron 175 - AF - ? - pi 176 - B0 - ? - rho 177 - B1 - ? - sigma 178 - B2 - ? - tau 179 - B3 - ? - upsilon 180 - B4 - ? - phi 181 - B5 - ? - chi 182 - B6 - ? - psi 183 - B7 - ? - omega 184 - B8 - ? - superscript 1 185 - B9 - ? - superscript 2 186 - BA - ? - superscript 3 187 - BB - ? - superscript 4 188 - BC - ? - superscript 5 189 - BD - ? - superscript 6 190 - BE - ? - superscript 7 191 - BF - ? - superscript 8 215 - D7 - ? - superscript 9 222 - DE - ? - Capital Delta 247 - F7 - ? - Degree symbol 254 - FE - ? - Bullet */
Would the use of characters 160 to 254 affect any special characters used when translating to some languages that have fancy accents etc. ?
That brings me to another issue I only just thought of.
DU uses a custom font which allows the use of Greek characters. I have pasted below the original information from Dan Charrois who originated DU.
I already found one probl;em that character 160 is used for a ? these days and NList did not show it - but the class was altered by the maintainers to allow the use of such characters. So that has been fixed.
/* I thought I'd document the ASCII codes for DU.font/9. Basically, it consists of the ECMA-94 Latin character set, with the following replacements: 160 - A0 - a - alpha 161 - A1 - ? - beta 162 - A2 - ? - gamma 163 - A3 - ? - delta 164 - A4 - ? - epsilon 165 - A5 - ? - zeta 166 - A6 - ? - eta 167 - A7 - ? - theta 168 - A8 - ? - iota 169 - A9 - ? - kappa 170 - AA - ? - lambda 171 - AB - ? - mu 172 - AC - ? - nu 173 - AD - ? - xi 174 - AE - ? - omicron 175 - AF - ? - pi 176 - B0 - ? - rho 177 - B1 - ? - sigma 178 - B2 - ? - tau 179 - B3 - ? - upsilon 180 - B4 - ? - phi 181 - B5 - ? - chi 182 - B6 - ? - psi 183 - B7 - ? - omega 184 - B8 - ? - superscript 1 185 - B9 - ? - superscript 2 186 - BA - ? - superscript 3 187 - BB - ? - superscript 4 188 - BC - ? - superscript 5 189 - BD - ? - superscript 6 190 - BE - ? - superscript 7 191 - BF - ? - superscript 8 215 - D7 - ? - superscript 9 222 - DE - ? - Capital Delta 247 - F7 - ? - Degree symbol 254 - FE - ? - Bullet */
Would the use of characters 160 to 254 affect any special characters used when translating to some languages that have fancy accents etc. ?
? and ? are the official correct french quotation marks for example.
As a general remark doing such things (replacing meaning of the character codes) you will inevitably face problems with languages using non Latin-1 character sets. If you do not intend to port to any other Amiga OS flavor, maybe you could look at the AOS 4.x features enabling usage of UTF subsets in applications, I never used them, neither do I have idea how that works, but it seems to me I read some time (years?) ago TetiSoft writing something about that. Maybe some AOS4 dev can help you here ?
AFAIK It is the only way to get Greek characters, unless I suppose you have a Greek language set up. There are certainly no Greek characters in English without doing such a thing.
If there is a better way of doing things if someone could let me know, and then I may be able to do something else for v2.
This is why DU has a custom font which these days can be a bit small, so if there is a way to get these characters without designing another slightly larger custom font I would be quite happy.
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, I think your help will not be unnecessary given the importance of the project), I told about my contact with Bill on our ML (or was it on the french OS4 ML?) some weeks ago.
