you'll get AISS icons next time you start up TuneNet
This is what threw me. I was expecting it to have an immediate effect, and when it didn't I assumed I needed to do something more (perhaps choose graphical set), so I undid the change rather than restart TuneNet. I guess it needs a pop-up message saying "Some of your changes will not take effect until TuneNet is restarted".
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selecting that directory in the Full Skin selector within Prefs will then set that Skin ... the full archive on OS4 Depot should include a default skin that you simply have to select "SkinFX Window"
My problem is that I have *no clue* as to which directory I should choose - nothing provided with TuneNet looks very likely to work (and the few I have tried did nothing). Perhaps I need to restart TuneNet after choosing the correct directory? Some indication of choosing the wrong kind of directory would be v.helpful.
It would be MUCH more idiot-proof if TuneNet required a special file to be chosen (say #?.tnskin), because then there is little doubt what you should choose. Barring that, perhaps the name of TuneNet skin directories should all begin or end with a particular thing, to identify them, for example "SkinFX_foobar/" or "foobar_SkinFX/".
P.S. There is no such "SkinFX Window" directory within the TuneNet directory (that I could find). edit: Oh, I think you must be referring to the "Window/SkinFX Display" menu option. Not where I would have expected it - there ought to be a tick box near to the "Full Skin" directory that does the same thing (and I guess it should be automatically ticked when you choose a new skin). And I still don't know which directory is the "default skin" that I need to choose.
The directory with the different skins in is called SkinFX/ is that not obvious enough for you? If you don't have that directory maybe your install is incomplete.
Having said that, there is a certain logic to explictly selecting the .xml file rather than the directory that contains it.
The directory with the different skins in is called SkinFX/ is that not obvious enough for you?
No, not really, when choosing a directory inside there (e.g. "Examples") has no visible effect, nor any error message. Especially when the Preferences item is labelled "Full Skin" (and there is also a "Docky Skin" item), so it is not clear whether "SkinFX" is related to that or something else or nothing at all.
Of course it seems simple, now that I know (a) that SkinFX is the name of the GUI's skin, (b) that "Window/SkinFX Display" needs to be enabled before the skin is used, and (c) that skin directories contain an "images" sub-folder (thus SkinFx/Examples/ is NOT a valid skin directory, but SkinFX/Examples/Container/ IS valid). This is not explained in the readme AFAICS.
I should just say that in an ideal world a manual shouldn't be needed (since most users don't read it anyway!), but that requires a GUI which makes it easy to explore how the program works - something which is actually very hard to do. A classic example is how Eric Raymond (a highly respected Linux 'hacker' aka programmer) very nearly failed to be able to network print using the CUPS system some years ago:
EDIT: I do not mean to imply that TuneNet's GUI is a horror, which is why this is a separate post! But I felt that the lack of "discoverability" in using TuneNet skins was similar to what Eric Raymond described.
Edited by ChrisH on 2009/7/14 19:09:48 Edited by ChrisH on 2009/7/14 23:07:52 Edited by ChrisH on 2009/7/14 23:09:08
It is true that the interface leaves a lot to be desired and has many inconsistencies in usage and features.
No real thought was ever put into the standard interface. I initially wanted just a simple tool to stream music whilst I worked on other projects and then that became my main project on the Amiga!
Also, going back a few years I just wanted TuneNet's interface to be compact, which is why I opted for those awful arrow selectors to keep things on screen down to a minimum. It doesn't work too well.
With the Skin System, Player, Mixer, Docky, Plugin, Visuals and standard Reaction GUI TuneNet has never excelled in 1 area, more it's been a jack of all (most) trades (but master of none!). I'm trying to solve this by making the inner workings more managable so it is easier and quicker to develop up in the future. This will ultimately result in a better standard GUI.
In my day job the applications we developed were always let down by our interfaces. These days they are much better and aimed at the average user, hopefully I can get that into TuneNet eventually. I'll put a few of your suggestions into the app.
Cheers, Bean.
P.S. CUPS can still be a nightmare, but is generally a lot better these days!
P.P.S. I hope people at least found addding and playing a Tune a simple task (though I fear people are going to mention the complexities of installing plugins and libraries here!)
@bean While I would be glad to see any of my skin interface suggestions implemented, IMHO they should be put below fixing any TuneNet bugs & adding requested features. TuneNet skins are pretty, but hardly essential, hence why I never put much effort into trying to get them to work (nor asked you).
I only made the suggestions because I think "first impressions" (in this case of a previously unused feature) can often be very helpful, and could perhaps be useful at some undefined time in the future.
BTW, I don't recall having any problems playing music. Playlist management is a bit different to WinAmp, but it is arguable whether WinAmp should be your template.
Yeah, bug fixes are being dealt with at the moment.
I'm quite excited at the new methods for plugins to dynamically update the song information. Not only does this fix a few issues with passing information around processes, it also allows a great deal of flexibility in what a plugin can update. You could for example even have a tune periodically updating an Album cover, like a frame to frame anim (if you so desired), or more practically updating a song title from a radio stream (like the shoutcast plugin does now).
I've been having to change the TuneNet preferences a fair bit lately to do some testing. I've noticed that the settings appear to save, even when selecting "use".
I was going to make a new MP3 based program in the style I wanted, but TuneNet is so good.. I think I'll just throw money at bean until he molds the playlist the way I want it, and adds ARexx stuff. It's such a great program.
Bean, if you're not toooooo busy, I'm going to start making suggestions for you. Might do some mockup Reaction suggestions.... users like the interface simple, but functional. I'm downloading the latest Tunenet at the moment.. will get back to you later. :)
The red areas need to be hidden or removed while the skinned interface is displayed, as this information is already displayed there.. and it takes up room.. also it looks like two seperate programs almost,with the duplication of information.. is there a Reaction equivalent of MUIA_ShowMe?
The blue areas has too much empty space which could look cooler if it was more compact, I think..
The green area could be improved upon in some way, but I dont know how. Functionally, its a great way to switch between the different modes though. But it takes up space, and might be a little untidy.. there might be a better way to do this, or that might be the best way already... I dont know, this is a grey area for me. :)
Also, the playlist window is unable to resized to a smaller/small/tiny size right now. I think it might be the weight calculations due to the red areas being displayed?
I'd like to hear other users opinions on what I've just typed.. because I dont want you to change up things drastically if other users will hate it..
But after consideration today, I decided to get behind Tunenet instead of making my new program. Simpleplay was alright back in the day when we had nothing else, but I'm ready to move on now. Tunenet is so far ahead in so many areas.. my gf is really impressed with your skins too. :)
The red areas need to be hidden or removed while the skinned interface is displayed, as this information is already displayed there.. and it takes up room.. also it looks like two seperate programs almost,with the duplication of information.. is there a Reaction equivalent of MUIA_ShowMe?
The blue areas has too much empty space which could look cooler if it was more compact, I think..
The green area could be improved upon in some way, but I dont know how. Functionally, its a great way to switch between the different modes though. But it takes up space, and might be a little untidy.. there might be a better way to do this, or that might be the best way already... I dont know, this is a grey area for me. :)
Also, the playlist window is unable to resized to a smaller/small/tiny size right now. I think it might be the weight calculations due to the red areas being displayed?
I'd like to hear other users opinions on what I've just typed.. because I dont want you to change up things drastically if other users will hate it..
But after consideration today, I decided to get behind Tunenet instead of making my new program. Simpleplay was alright back in the day when we had nothing else, but I'm ready to move on now. Tunenet is so far ahead in so many areas.. my gf is really impressed with your skins too. :)
Keep up the good work. It's a fine program!
Jahc, well to the first(RED) part, are you having the Playlist window opened whilst you are using the SkinFX interface? If so Why!! after you have got your playlist/mp3s in your playlist just close it down.
Blue area? again if your running in SkinFX Mode its not a problem, yes i understand not everybody runs in SkinFX mode ( but they Should )
Green Area same as above, as for resizing the window it seems to be Limited to the width of Tabs for Playlist, Radio and Tune. So for me at least none of those are a problem, I run Tunenet in The Shield Skin from the Tunenet site.
This Puny World will bow down to Professor Chaos Prepare for the greatest Villan you have ever seen!!
Competition is always good, keeps me on my toes! But I appreciate the compliments!
TuneNet is undergoing a lot of changes at the moment, the only problem is my time is limited, but the core system is much much easier to maintain these days making changes/enhancements quicker to implement:
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(in my opinion!)
The red areas need to be hidden or removed while the skinned interface is displayed, as this information is already displayed there.. and it takes up room.. also it looks like two seperate programs almost,with the duplication of information.. is there a Reaction equivalent of MUIA_ShowMe?
I see what you are saying, when you bring up a Reaction playlist from a skinned interface the additional info should be hidden. Consider that on the list.
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The green area could be improved upon in some way, but I dont know how. Functionally, its a great way to switch between the different modes though. But it takes up space, and might be a little untidy.. there might be a better way to do this, or that might be the best way already... I dont know, this is a grey area for me. :)
I'm always open to suggestions, but I don't always have the answers - any ideas anyone?
Quote:
Also, the playlist window is unable to resized to a smaller/small/tiny size right now. I think it might be the weight calculations due to the red areas being displayed?
I think you are right here, doing the 1st item you suggested (reduced info if in playlist mode) may fix this.
Jahc, well to the first(RED) part, are you having the Playlist window opened whilst you are using the SkinFX interface? If so Why!! after you have got your playlist/mp3s in your playlist just close it down.
Blue area? again if your running in SkinFX Mode its not a problem, yes i understand not everybody runs in SkinFX mode ( but they Should )
Green Area same as above, as for resizing the window it seems to be Limited to the width of Tabs for Playlist, Radio and Tune. So for me at least none of those are a problem, I run Tunenet in The Shield Skin from the Tunenet site.
Does the DMS skin have a skinned playlist? I couldnt find one, that's why I'm using the Reaction playlist..
@bean
cool, thanks. then add an ARexx port too and I'll be very happy!
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