An open discussion on where we go from here

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Anonymous

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

#81

@Rogue

Duly disregarded. Have a nice weekend.

@HyperionMP

Ben

Are you aware of the voluntary effort OpenAmiga that donates all rights to Hyperion if they so wish to use any of the output? But yes, buying products is an obvious way to help.

Are there any non Amiga projects that Hyperion has worked on that they still get royalties from?

Would you even consider bounties for subsystems, drivers etc? Even if not for Hyperion employees and subcontractors, but for members of the core development team should they so wish to allow it to influence their priorities?

What about working with other teams more (MorphOS/AROS)?

Edited by DaveP on 2009/8/1 10:30:48
Edited by DaveP on 2009/8/1 10:32:03

afxgroup

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/1 11:53 #82

Amigans Defender

@DaveP

Quote:

What about working with other teams more (MorphOS/AROS)?

AHH!! You are the Devil!!!!!!!!! Shut up!! Heretic!!!

i'm really tired...

Anonymous

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

#83

@afxgroup

Its such a shame that I can't mention those names without someone wanting to bring out the comfy chair.

afxgroup

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/1 13:52 #84

Amigans Defender

@DaveP

unlucky.. you will never see MOS/AOS join their forces..

i'm really tired...

Mark

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/1 14:10 #85

Just popping in

@HyperionMP

Quote:

HyperionMP wrote:

The most obvious way for people who are interested in seeing a more rapid evolution of AmigaOS 4.x development, would be to buy Hyperion products.

This is only slightly better than asking people to buy Troikas products. Hyperion have released a half dozen games most with little or no support for OS4 all of which have been released for so long that everybody will have them by now.

Obviously there is OS4.x and given the length of time and state and cost of the hardware most who are going to will have bought it by now.

I will admit to having not bought the 4.1 upgrade, mainly because of the absolutely dire USB support that means OS4 is incompatible with my USB KVM. Which in turn means my A1 is a useless lump under the desk which is coming close to being dumped somewhere unpleasant.

So all in all I'd ask what products could anyone buy to provide those incentives...

Mark

For custom designed applications, websites, ecommerce and secure hosting visit:

www.icestarmedia.com

Rigo

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/1 15:31 #86

Supreme Council

@Mark

Quote:

I will admit to having not bought the 4.1 upgrade, mainly because of the absolutely dire USB support that means OS4 is incompatible with my USB KVM.

The USB support was enhanced for 4.1 (and continues to undergo improvements), so by not buying it, you are stuck with the older USB support. Seems a bit of a catch22 situation to me...

Simon

Edited by Rigo on 2009/8/1 16:14:01

Atheist

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/3 5:09 #87

Quite a regular

Quote:

DaveP wrote:

What has changed is that Amiga Inc is neutered. Not just as a force but now in potentia also. Good. But the handcuffs of that license agreement seems still to be holding Hyperion back in some way, so perhaps the fat lady hasn't really sung yet.

-- Edited by DaveP - redacting court case stuff so the thread can be restore to the front page. Sorry!

Quote:

DaveP wrote:

On the OS3.x side, the hardware picture is rosy.

NatAmi seems to not come up here often enough at all. I suppose it's "vapour" for most until it is tangible, released for sale. I understand this.

I hope that Hyperion Entertainment don't look on it as an enemy to AOS4.x. As far as I am concerned, the trial outcome when finalized, will also include ownership of AOS3.x and further back to ALL versions to them. They could easily release a NatAmi update. I have absolute confidence that every NatAmian would buy a copy.

For the record, I am in both camps, 100%.

Quote:

DaveP wrote:

It might turn out to be the great hope of Amiga users around the world, it might turn out to be the last man standing.

AROS? Icaros? Sorry, but I have the extreme hope that Hyperion will be able to weather out this terrible period and become a very, very prosperous going concern. They, truly, deserve this.

I couldn't begin to imagine how bad it's been for the people that are behind the scenes, I hope they can stay in there longer enough.

Quote:

DaveP wrote:

Temporarily, lets look back at the PPC side. I have a defunct uA1, a defunct A1-XE

That is awful to hear. I feel bad for anyone this has happened to.

Quote:

DaveP wrote:

What I was really looking for, and what would have made my decision easier, was an x86 PPC emulator, with U-Boot that would allow me to run AmigaOS4.x as a development environment.

As always, wouldn't it be pathetically slow and perhaps wouldn't be able to take advantage of the extra CPUs in almost any way?

Question:

If you have a 3GHz 4 core CPU, how come it can't imitate a 3GHz G4?

I mean, aren't even THREE cores enough to run win-dos and an emulator so that one 3 GHz full core on it's own could seem to be a G4 @3?

Quote:

DaveP wrote:

If so, then I suspect the Amiga Inc contract that has to be challenged and broken in order for AmigaOS4.x to survive and provide reasonable return for the Hyperion and team investment in it over so many years.

I'll hold back on commenting on this.

Quote:

DaveP wrote:

Why? Well, I think we are beyond the point where anyone can seriously consider the Amiga market to be a viable business proposition. At this moment, and for many a year, it has been on life support and scrabbling in the dirt for survival. The technology isn't superior, there are no real technical unique selling points and what it does have going for it is a nostalgic familiarity for a certain type of user who has stuck it out this far ? or nearly this far.

I disagree.

There are features of AOS that it is unlikely will ever be in win-dos, win-dos could never even do, in addition to, windos has peculiar behavior that I find totally unacceptable.

Win-dos does not work when you turn off the swap drive. Absolutely unacceptable. Additionally, I am completely against multi-user system setups.

There are other things but I don't wish to bore you.
Quote:

DaveP wrote:

In order for a viable business to be made around Amiga hardware and software the price point (or risk taken in advance with projected units) has to break even on costs. This is not just the cost of producing a board from the point of view of renting production line space, buying chips in volume, the cost of components plus the assembly time. A viable business has to cover staffing costs, has to cover taxes, overheads, advertising, marketing and a plethora of costs. If what is being sold does NOT cover those basics then it is being priced at a loss.

And everyone wonders why the AmigaOne cost so much. I am honored to have paid what I did for that that I received in return. Thank you very much Alan Redhouse and Eyetech and many, many others.

As for the future:

I have an AmigaOne and am not willing to buy even an 800 MHz Sam.

The next Amiga that works with AOS4.x that I would be willing to buy has to be 1.8+ GHz and have Altivec or it would have to be 2.2+ GHz without. Also, no more on board graphics. Give us 4 PCI-E slots.

In addition to this, I think that the NatAmi will catapult Amiga back into the mainstream...... shocking, no?

Edited by DaveP on 2009/8/3 16:40:54

Support Amiga Fantasy cases!!!
How to program: 1. Start with lots and lots of 0's. 10. Add 1's, liberally.

"Details for OS 5 will be made public in the fourth quarter of 2007, ..." - Bill McEwen
Whoah!!! He spoke, a bit late.

Adept

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/3 15:59 #88

Just popping in

- Edited by DaveP -

- redacting court case discussion.

Edited by DaveP on 2009/8/3 16:39:22
Edited by DaveP on 2009/8/3 16:40:01

Anonymous

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

#89

Sorry folks, but court case stuff is veering off topic for this thread, and more importantly means this thread ends up in the "Too hot to handle" area. My choice is to trim out the back and forth about the court case (and I probably shouldn't have mentioned it either so this is my fault) and restore this thread to the front, or leave this to fester in the Too Hot To Handle area.

My decision is to trim. I apologise in advance to anyone this annoys, please feel free to continue the back and forth about the court case on one of the existing topics. I will leave your posts intact but redact the court case bits so you can see what I have done - I hate it when posts just go missing myself.

Given I have taken this action, please direct all complaints about this moderation action to another member of staff, for example: Orgin.

Mark

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/3 17:04 #90

Just popping in

@Rigo

It is a bit, and if finances were better off, I'd probably chance it, but without more guarantee that its going to work I cant justify the expense right now. Given the reports of other software that now works, and works the way I need it too, I can almost go back to using the A1 as my main machine, but I'd still need the KVM working, which unfortunately I can't test without buying the upgrade etc.... so yes a catch 22 situation all round.

Mark

For custom designed applications, websites, ecommerce and secure hosting visit:

www.icestarmedia.com

tonyw

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/4 1:27 #91

Quite a regular

@DaveP

Fully support your "putting your foot down" wrt off-topic discussion.
Would that more mods would do the same.

cheers
tony

Adept

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/5 13:40 #92

Just popping in

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote:
@DaveP

Fully support your "putting your foot down" wrt off-topic discussion.
Would that more mods would do the same.

fine with me.

ChrisH

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/5 18:37 #93

Home away from home

@Mark Quote:

I'd still need the KVM working, which unfortunately I can't test without buying the upgrade

Which KVM do you have? I have a nice KVM which works fairly well with OS4.1 on my Sam440 - maybe it is the same as yours?

Edited by ChrisH on 2009/8/6 23:07:28

Author of the PortablE programming language.

Mark

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/10 11:48 #94

Just popping in

@ChrisH

Its an Avocent Switchview DVI

Mark

For custom designed applications, websites, ecommerce and secure hosting visit:

www.icestarmedia.com

amigacooke

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/10 13:11 #95

Just popping in

Well as a one time Amiga supporter I have to say that I can see no reason now to invest any more of my income or time in the Amiga community.

When I first bought my A500 it enabled me to do thing that I could not with any other platform. Now it seems that using the Amiga means you can not do things that are available to users of Windows, OS X and Linux.

Eventually I have decide to use the head and not the heart. The time of the Amiga has come and gone.

ChrisH

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/10 14:02 #96

Home away from home

@Mark
GOOD NEWS! It seems highly probable (but not 100% certain) that your KVM is the same as mine (internally), and I have gotten my Sam440 to work fairly well with my KVM. Here are the relevant threads:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/v ... p?topic_id=27383&forum=33
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/v ... hp?topic_id=27174&forum=2

As it now stands, the only KVM problem I have is that the Sam440's output is not displayed unless *one* of these two conditions is met:
1. Windows PC is switched on before the Sam440.
2. The KVM is switched to show the Sam440's output before switching the Sam440 on. (And for some reason the KVM always defaults to the Windows PC port, even when it is switched off! So I have to manually switch it.)

Author of the PortablE programming language.

ChrisH

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/10 14:11 #97

Home away from home

@amigacooke Quote:

Well as a one time Amiga supporter I have to say that I can see no reason now to invest any more of my income or time in the Amiga community.

When I first bought my A500 it enabled me to do thing that I could not with any other platform. Now it seems that using the Amiga means you can not do things that are available to users of Windows, OS X and Linux.

Eventually I have decide to use the head and not the heart. The time of the Amiga has come and gone.

Have you ever used a recent version of OS4 on non-buggy hardware? I found that OS4.1 on the Sam440 is a wonderful experience that I cannot get on Windows, OS X or Linux.

Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but Windows is truely terrible (e.g. a 2GHz+ machine with 2GB RAM & dual-core can take many seconds to open/show a simple file list on Vista - insane!), while OS X treats you like an idiot (which is fine if you don't like to have control over your computer or customise it at all), and Linux is... well... too complicated for it's own good. AmigaOS4.1 does not have any of those problems.

Author of the PortablE programming language.

trixie

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/10 14:50 #98

Amigans Defender

@amigacooke

Quote:

I have to say that I can see no reason now to invest any more of my income or time in the Amiga community.

Why would you invest in the community? Buy a SAM with OS4.1 and invest in yourself

Quote:

Now it seems that using the Amiga means you can not do things that are available to users of Windows, OS X and Linux

You are absolutely right! Yet, there is ONE thing I personally couldn't get from Windows or other OSes: having fun. And crazy as it may sound, for me this was the decisive factor. So now I _am_ having fun using my computer, again.

cha05e90

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/10 15:51 #99

Quite a regular

@amigacooke

So your contribution to "An open discussion on where we go from here" is to say: "Go away."

Bye.

X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

Snuffy

Re: An open discussion on where we go from here

Posted on: 2009/8/10 17:14 #100

Just can't stay away

@amigacooke

When I first bought my A500 it enabled me to do thing that I could not with any other platform.
What was that?
The time of the Amiga has come and gone. .
Huh, I always thought it had mysterious "boomerang" powers - no matter how hard you throw it away, it finds a way back - bam- right in the side of the head! ;-p
Your avatar seems kind of out of place now. Thanks for the input.

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