The Xena module

@freddix

"finally" ?

It's always been like that, it's just that some amigans seems to like to make more out of stuff than what they really are. The x-core capabilities are not a surprise, all information on what it is and what it's intended for has been available for quiet some time on the xmos home page (excluding how it's integrated into the x1000, but that doesn't really change what its purpose is). Yet some amigans has made a full chicken out of the feather totally ignoring the available information.

@orgin
English is not my native language so, I can't spend hours reading english docs ... I must ofter read them 2 or 3 times cos they use "technical" words ... That's why I try to get informations in another way.

Regards.

@Geoshaper,

Lets not forget that there is also a PCI-E in line with Xorro.

A card with 2 connectors will have more connectivity available to what ever you decide to put in there.

Chris

@freddix

Quote:

That remains to be seen. A hard-core developer could create their own PCI express board. The Xorro port enables people with much less expertise to make stuff, which brings it within reach of a lot more people.

Quote:

For many Amiga OS users, Blender is also of low interest, because they're not 3D modellers/artists. For example, I've installed it, but I don't have the time to learn how to use it, so it's not exactly of great interest to me. I'm still happy that it's there though. You could go through almost all software that's available, from 3D to audio, and state that they are of low interest because only a few people are likely to use them much.

Xena + Xorro is for creative types who enjoy making their own addons (and there are more of those than you think). No, not everyone knows how to connect up extra things, and not everyone will be willing to learn. For those that are interested though, it's going to be great. They may just design something that's worth sharing with you, in which case you'll also be happy that it's there.

Quote:

It's a very nice "toy." You're complaining that it doesn't seem to have a predefined purpose for standard desktop use, but that's the whole point of it. People can make it do whatever they want it to (within the device's capabilities); it's yet another outlet for people's creativity.

Previously people claimed that the PowerPC 440 can't be used in a desktop because it's an embedded CPU. Now people claim that the Xena + Xorro has no place in a desktop. It's time for people to think beyond the little box that is their "standard desktop."

Hans

@Hans

Hear here. Thank you, well stated. Cheers.

Chris

@orgin

Quote:
At some point in time somebody noticed that rubber (feather) was flexible and
waterproof and started making rubber boots (chicken).

Which came first, chips or desktop computers?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not a video guy, but perhaps it could be used for mixing signals from
various sources having different formats or timing. Seems also possible to use
for sound mixing/splitting.

(Hmm, thinking to self, there's an interesting looking feather.)

@those who know

If I understand this right. The xorro slot would be perfect for a multi I/O card with ports for legacy mouse/keyboard/joystick/sid chip/clock port. And do it cheaper than catweasel (fewer specific chips because of the programmable xena chip) ?

Could we make a IO-card with slots for original chips (kick1.3/cia/paula/68k/whatnot) and send emulated software to real hw?

That could really offload the cpu when emulating, and make more old software and games work (can bang the hw).

@orgin
Quote:
Well people don't consider the whole x-mos thing useful just as a clock-port emulator due to videos like these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXefMKkzTw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5eU8pHpy-c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxP-DK9uGZU&feature=related

Also there is this possible development:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atAdpt5SZe8

...and the fact that at the last conference they acknowledged the need for an FPU in a second generation design (and the fact that even a cluster of 2nd gen chips should be able to connect to the xorro slot).

So it is certainly not a substitute for anything but limiting the whole thing to "it's just useful as an air conditioner temperature controller" is rather simplistic.

It adds a lot of spice to Amiga IMHO, what will come out of it, only time will tell.

@DAX
I don't understand ...

Several people said "Xmos" is for interfacing only...

And when I see this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5eU8pHpy-c&feature=related
(from one of your link)
The guy develop an app using XMos to render screen ...

So Xena can be used for this too ?

@freddix Quote:
I don't they said that (at least I didn't). The Xmos chip is *optimised* for I/O, timing & parallel execution, rather than brute force single-threaded calculations.

Quote:
Of course, if you connect it right. Rendering to a screen is "only" I/O after all. Although it will be high bandwidth I/O, so there will surely be some limits.

@ChrisH

Quote:

Could you expand on that thought a little ?

@mechanic

You need high bandwidth to retrieve display data and the chip only has 64kb of memory (or whatever). 64k is enough to emulate a C64 display output or some kind of vector display output but not to display full bitmap true color displays. If you want to display an fullscreen image from main memory you need high bandwidth between the xcore and main memory and you'd need the system to not halt the memory access for the xcore while the cpu or some dma access is running.

(Note, by display above i don't mean the graphics card output but rather that the chip generates its own video output which is fully possible with the xcore)

@orgin

Oh, OK. I see what you're saying. Thanx.

Can Xena be used for Little-Big Endian conversion thus speeding up the x86 emulation? (It is possible that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I may even be surprised if what I just wrote makes any sense at all)

Hi,

Just because it's basically a state machine does not mean it's not useful.

You can put a card in Xorro that has a processor on it and use the Xena as I/O control and port timing.

There are plenty of X1000 lines going to not only the Xorro but the PCI-e in front of it.

I'll bet Individual Computing will come up with some good stuff all by himself, let alone others.

Chris

@ancalimon Quote:
I'm afraid that what you say does NOT make any sense . Never mind that there isn't any x86 emulation...

@all

What about a xena/xorro connection between the x1000 and another
amigaone (older models) or Amiga classics, would that be possible?

Edit: or even maybe a mac or a pc.

@Dirk-B
Something like that should be possible. What would you want to do with such a connection though?

@ChrisH

Maybe copying large amounts of data or whole older hardisk(partitions).

Or maybe interact with some programs, something like copy and paste?

I am sure there are more ideas for this sort of connection.

If some clever person could build me a Zorro II/III busboard so I could use some old school hardware, that would be awesome!
I could then mount it all in a tower bigger than my refrigerator in true Amiga-tower style.

In all seriousness, I'm an electrical engineer by trade and I am getting excited by the hardware hacking possibilities. Sure, there are xmos developer kits. But having it all in a personal computer will make things much more fun.

Unfortunately my bank manager already hates me, so I can't afford to buy a new computer anytime soon... If a xmos equipped Amiga is still on the market when I'm in a better financial position much fun will be had!