DDR2/SATA2/USB2 vs DDR3/SATA3/USB3?

Yeah, this might rather be very confusing, but would like to take up these things...

Some might think that choosing DDR2, SATA2 and USB2 for the newest generation of PPC Amigas is to say that this
technology is "outdated", just because the latest PCs
are now going to use DDR3, SATA3 and USB3...

Is this really important, especially in term of the Amiga?
I imagine that the difference between DDR2 vs DDR3,
SATA2 vs SATA3 and USB2 vs USB3, are very small really,
is that correct?

DDR2, SATA2 and USB2 were chosen for the latest PPC-technology because we realize that the latest
AmigaOS will benefit a lot from them and will be
fully supported. From that stage, i guess it will be
safe to say that it doesn't matter how long it might
take until we take yet another step into the future
forming the next generation Amiga system...

Who knows? In a couple of years time, perhaps it will
be justify enough to think a new Amiga system then will
be using DDR3, SATA3 and USB3? I don't think that matters
so much now as the difference between these things in version 2 and 3 must be very small...

What do you think?

@Helgis

I don't know enough for speaking about what's faster or better to use (like you I think there isn't so much difference), BUT : As every time a new technology is born (particularly in the RAM domain), the "outdated" products disappeared from the shops. In only some month it became hard to find some compatible RAM (SDRAM, DDR, DDR2, DDR3, etc.). Today we still can find DDR2 but in some month ?

AND, I don't know if you remember but not all models of RAM were compatible with the A1 (at it's time). So what about SAM or X1000 ? Will they support all models ?

Nic

@Helgis

The real life speed difference is small.
DDR2 is still in the PCs mainstream, (IIRC...) originally DDR3 failed to deliver any advantage over DDR2. I think it's untill very recently that CPUs have started to take full advantage of DDR3.
USB3 ... recently I heard that very rarely PC HW manage to use full USB3 bandwidth, so it's only in "coming" stage.

And IMHO there are some limits&needs that define what are sensible maximum bandwidths. USB3 might be usefull in connecting GFX card to a laptop, but for what else would it be needed? x1000 surely would have no use for it, because it has higher bandwidth connection(s) on board already.

Another thing is that high bandwidths increase electric power use. Things like 1Gb ethernet chips were pretty hot for a long time. Only recently they entered in low power SoC chips.

@unimon

dont be silly, I can order sdram and even edo ram if i want, and recieve it in a few days.

for sata i doubt the hard drives people have can reach sata-1 speed, let alone sata-3, unless they have a really nice SSD or RAID

@derfs

I don't know were you are from, but here in my town in Switzerland I also asked if it's possible to order RAM, but all shops I asked, I was told it's hard to have it for only 1 piece.

So, then you're lucky.

Nic

@derfs

Right.
My Seagate Momentus 2.5" drive transfers ~100Mb/s on SAM440ep.


"As of April 2009 mechanical hard disk drives can transfer data at up to 131 MB/s, which is within the capabilities of the older PATA/133 specification. However, high-performance flash drives can transfer data at up to 201 MB/s, exceeding the PATA specification, but well below the capabilities of the SATA 3Gb/s specification."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

So, we wont hit any barriers when using SATA2 in the near future.

And because x1000 seems to have RAID capable controller, we will have insane bandwidth to use, once the drivers appear.

@KimmoK

You're right. Absolutely right! Seeing the technical information about these stuffs and making the final
conclusion will reveal that there are very little difference
between version 2 and 3 of these things...

A-EON was also told by experts behind advanced PowerPC motherboard design of these things, and that's why we do not need to worry. It's important to use the technology that is mostly used today, not what is on the way. That's why i am relief that Amiga technicans will use good time to support new technology to use in the Amiga..

So i am not worried. And why should we actually? AmigaOne X1000 and SAM460 are the best most up-to-date Amiga technology we are going to get, that have ever seen the light in the Amiga community!

@Helgis

Also folks need to keep in mind that the controller for the memory is probably built into the CPU and I will bet that it will only handle DDR2 memory... (I have also heard that DDR3 is quite finicky and if everything isn't exactly perfect it can actually run SLOWER than DDR2.) Regardless I'll bet that DDR3 can't be controlled by the processor so we have DDR2... (And considering the specs of the CPU and attendant hardware, I doubt that DDR3 would net much benefit anyway...)

As for USB3, I haven't even seen anything released for USB 3 yet... (There probably are some items out there, but why muddy up the driver/software scene any further? ) Give us GOOD stable USB 2.0 drivers for 2.0 items and life will be awesome...

I know that when I build a new PC I always select components that are a few steps below bleeding edge and I end up saving TONS of money... Considering that the X1000 being the niche machine that we all know it is and considering the relatively low volumes, I think they made ABSOLUTELY the correct choice in selecting DDR2 memory and USB 2.0 vs. newer components.. The price is already going to be a sore spot and making it cost even more for such luxuries would be foolish... (And this is just my opinion folks so please don't take offense.)

For those folks that say we need USB3 and DDR3 memory and SATA whatever.... Will you buy an X1000 for let's say $1500? (My best guess at price.) Now if you added all the wants above would you be happier if it cost an additional $500? ($2000) I doubt it, and I wouldn't want to pay the extra myself...

I wonder how many of the folks decrying the hardware are even TRULY looking at buying one?

@outlawal2

I agree with you on what you say. The development team together with A-EON had great experience and knowledge of PowerPC motherboard, so they picked the most suitable components, so i am not worried...

Again, it was this old PC-friend of mine (known as Amigadigger, whom i have now erased as a friend) who
claimed that DDR2, SATA2 and USB2, are "outdated" technology. That's nonsense!

@All

So there is no real reason to worry about this.

@Helgis

AmigaOne X1000 will rock!
And I think that the sam460ex is gona be a killer to

@Helgis

1. Is there such a thing as a DDR3 memory controller for PowerPC? Does ANY PowerPC SOC chip have DDR3 support?

2. There are plenty of PCI-Express slots to put SATA3 and USB3 cards into.

3. Judging by the X1000 pictures, they likely chose a chip that offers a number of features all in one chip. I've elsewhere back in January speculated what chip that may be, if I'm right that's exactly the chip I'd use if I made my own board. Does such a combination chip exist with these newer versions of those features that can be used with PowerPC?

@metalmac

Definitely, no doubt!

@billt

1. As far as i know, no and might take some time. Also read what others have said about the difference as there is no need to worry. The difference is very little..

2. That thing is true, as A1-X1000 is built with great expandability in mind, so i wouldn't worry at all..

3. You're probably referring to the Xena XMOS co-processor that will be on a PCI-e card for future upgradability...

Again, i wouldn't worry. A-EON and ACube have come up with killer specifications that will be fully supported in AmigaOS as it gets updated to fully support them!

@metalmac

Looking closer at the specifications of the X1000, mainly the CPU, it seems that the mystical CPU is the PA6T from P.A Semi. If you google this CPU, you will find it has quite a lot of powerful features, and it's a true 64-bit RISC CPU, but can run in 32-bit RISC, like AmigaOS 4.

Again, excellent choice from A-EON and their development team, and combined with the overall amazing specifications of the A1-X1000, this makes the perfect High-End PPC Amiga!

@Helgis

Quote:

Nope, I'm referring to an uncensored chip on the board, it was never covered up.

Who's worrying?

@billt

Uncensored chip you say? Well, i respect your opinion, and i meant to say SOME were worried, but not anymore..

But X1000 will have great expandability, so there is plenty of options..

@Helgis

Usb3 i have seen just a couple of things on the net so far. Usb2 will ne around for long time still,and usb3 is backward compatible. Atleast they say.
But will probably be usb3 pci cards available at some point,so the major problem in long terms here will most likely be software supporting it.

Ddr3 i haven't read much about. But don't think any ppc cards supports it. Ddr2 is easy to get and cheap. So it's a good choice.

Sata2 is good enough for now,as it requires raid mode to reach that kinda speeds. And will probably come as pci cards later on aswell. So don?t think thats gonna be a problem.

The one thing i'm wondering is the pci-e x16 slots. Are they version 1.0,1.1,2.0 or 2.1???

@Antique

Thank you for that, my friend. It certainly ease the worries. I can said i had been a little worried myself a bit earlier, but not now anymore...

I'm still very much impressed about the specifications of the AmigaOne X1000.

@Helgis

Yeas, the A1-X1000 is a realy power house amiga
And I am also looking forward to the sam460, it must be like three times as powerful as the sam440ep.
Im so glad that I gona have the chanse to own a new amiga in the future!

@Helgis

Quote:

It was not covered by any black squares to hide it like they did for Xcore and the CPU. They haven't said what it is, I'm just guessing what it is, based on that it resembles very much a chip I'm playing with, but it wasn't hidden from view.

@metalmac

Both the new Amiga systems will be amazing, for sure!