DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

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Anonymous

Because I don't want it to be aw.netted:

I must say Ben's post gave me a good old laugh. I can see where he is going with his Amigan filter but it is totally unenforceable. I had a bit of fun with this, no mean spirit intended I just want to highlight the absurdity of this.

Quote:

- ability to assemble a full system with just a bare motherboard and memory provided to you

In order to test this in advance please report to your nearest Amiga user group so that Ben can watch via Skype and a webcam you choose between a range of different cases and try and install an ancient BTX form factor motherboard, memory and boot it.

Quote:

- ability to file accurate and detailed bugreports in a dedicated bugtracker (Bugzilla) in order to help AmigaOS 4 developers track down any remaining issues

In order to check your credentials we are giving you a Bugzilla login. Please download the special version of SabreMSN with a bug in it and await a call from Ben Hermans. Ring ring!
Ben: FREAK! DOUBLE CLICK NOW!
Candidate: whaa........?
Ben: TICK bloody TOCK!
Candidate: ok ok ok ...
Candidate clicks
Candidate: It grimmed, what do I do now?
Ben: You got 30 seconds left WHAT DO YOU DO? WHAT DO you DO!!!
Candidate thinks, ah, bugzilla
Candidate logs in after scrabbling for details, and gets as far as typing in "it crashed" before..
Ben: Times up FREAK!
*Silence while Ben checks Bugzilla*
Ben: You failed. Wheres your grim trace? Wheres your eloquent description of your new Amiga system and everything you got connected into it? Hmmmm? How on EARTH is Jahc going to find the bug that he deliberately put in with this description "it crashed!"???? Now **** off back to using Ubuntu lamer!

Quote:

- sufficient dedication and time to test newly developed components which are released on a daily basis (as is the case now for AmigaOS development and AmigaOS betatesters)

This mean daily tests? Does that mean you get given a test plan? Does it mean its going to be organised. After all function shipped on a given day might not be applicable to a given install. Please supply a breakdown of your schedule for the next three months.

1 week in

Phone rings.

Ben: FREAK!!! You've not FILED a report or replied on the ML for over 3 days!
Freak: Sorry dad. I *stutters* was at a job interview, my cat died and my girlfriend was pregnant.
Ben: Insufficient dedication. Go buy yourself a Mac.

*Calls back*
Ben: It was the girlfriend claim that gave you away.

Quote:

- adherence to the terms of a NDA as part of a larger contract which allows everyone to pull out with a full refund prior to actual shipping of the hardware

Phone rings...
Ben: Have you ever broken an NDA before?
Freak (lies): No?

Quote:

- a 750 euro deposit to attract the most dedicated people.

Welcome to capitalistopia where your dedication is measured by your bank balance.

Phone rings....
Ben: Where did you get this money?
Freak: I did 750 paperrounds yesterday, but I'm really on the dole and a layabout but here is my credit card number
Ben: Welcome to the beta-tester programme

Quote:

- people who beieve that by signing up, they will learn the identity of the CPU or other undisclosed information which most likely will only be disclosed prior to shipping at which time they can bail out with a full refund if they don't like the specs

Does this mean that if you sign up, you wont learn the identity of the CPU you have bought? Cool! You should sell this new cloaking device technology.

Quote:

- people who do not intend to abide by the terms of the contract including the NDA provisions (which they can evaluate prior to signing or not signing) as this will not be taken lightly at all

They evaluate whether they intend? You don't evaluate it?

Quote:

Existing AmigaOS 4 betatesters have precedence over "newbies" and people with a development trackrecord will have precedence over people without such trackrecord. Other than that, it will be "first come, first served".

And woe betide your track record. But I already posted about that on amigans.net

Seriously, good luck to people, and good luck to the people actually DEVELOPING the drivers for X1000. But unless this beta tester programme is properly managed, with proper test plans, people wont have the first clue of what is really expected of them and nor will the developers get the information they need. But I'm sure with the voluminous experience of managing people who pay to work Hyperion are going to get it right.

Absolutely sure.

100%

No question.

But in truth its more likely that names that submit will be talked about, discussed if they are "right" or not and many discarded. If they even get 20 applicants at the end that meet their filter I'd be surprised. I'd also be pleasantly surprised if they DID say we had 100+ applicants and chose 20. This would indicate some level of quality control and that they were serious about what Ben is claiming is the criteria above. Otherwise its an artificial number.

Anyhow, prepare for your rejection slips

(I wonder if this will end up in my Stasi file?

ChrisH

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 9:08 #2

Home away from home

@DaveP
I guess they should just give-up and not get any beta-testers, right? In fact the whole idea of users beta-testing ANYTHING is ridiculous? And why do people bother with CVs for job applications anyway, when they can just lie about everything?

... Or maybe Hyperion's list of qualifications for the ideal beta-tester is just a guide to both them & applicants? To help guide their selection process, much like a list of requirements for a job application? And to help applicants not waste their time by applying for beta-testing for which they are not suitable? It doesn't guarantee they pick good beta-testers, any more than a job interview guarantees the best applicant is picked for a job, but it should help increase the chances of good beta-testers being picked. Better to have 50% good beta-testers than 10%, right?

Author of the PortablE programming language.

Anonymous

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

@Chris

You'd really do much better if you reply to what I am saying, rather than talking past me.

Quote:

I guess they should just give-up and not get any beta-testers, right? In fact the whole idea of users beta-testing ANYTHING is ridiculous? And why do people bother with CVs for job applications anyway, when they can just lie about everything?

What has this got to do with the price of fish? Of course they should get beta-testers. The whole idea of users beta testing something is not ridiculous so long as it is properly organised with a test plan so that it delivers early the results that development need to get it right and ensures proper coverage.

CVs for job application can be checked, I've had two jobs recently one of which conducted a full background check into my CV before an interview, and the other after as well as an ECRB check. It is the job of human resources departments to check the claims of applicants which is why you have an interview (to determine suitability - and in development you get a programming test more often than not), and then generally references are taken up.

Quote:

... Or maybe Hyperion's list of qualifications for the ideal beta-tester is just a guide to both them & applicants?

I believe I said as much.

Quote:

To help guide their selection process, much like a list of requirements for a job application? And to help applicants not waste their time by applying for beta-testing for which they are not suitable? It doesn't guarantee they pick good beta-testers, any more than a job interview guarantees the best applicant is picked for a job, but it should help increase the chances of good beta-testers being picked. Better to have 50% good beta-testers than 10%, right?

Tell me where I am disagreeing with this?

They will have all their work ahead of them, if the end result is to get effective testers then there is one thing needed (and money is not one of them) - and the burden is on management to select the right applicants and then manage them with courtesy and efficiency to get the job done in time. If the objective is to bring in 80k then thats another thing altogether.

Sorry, I do happen to work in this industry

And I do mean "work", I'm working today in fact, from 10 through to 6pm, to avoid a schedule slipping.

NotYo

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 10:01 #4

Just popping in

@DaveP

I think you're saying that Ben will only pick 'honey-mouthed' beta testers, not anyone who will actually stand up to him and say, "This is shitte, and here's why;"

But you do actually need beta testers who have the huevos to stand up and say, "This doesn't work, because..."

Just like a government needs a strong opposition to work, which I never understood until I lived in the UK and saw it in action. In my experience, most Americans don't understand why this is necessary, as a fully 'compliant' Congress is seen as a better thing for the President. That's not meant to be a slam, just how I view it. OK?

~ Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does.
~ When it comes to going after what you love in life, don't take no for an answer.
~ Your children get only one childhood.
~ Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift.

ChrisH

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 10:01 #5

Home away from home

@DaveP Quote:

What has this got to do with the price of fish?

Dunno, it was quite hard to discern what you were actually saying (have you taken lessons from Helgis?), so I took a best-guess.

Quote:

I believe I said as much.

Perhaps you could summarise what you were trying to say then? You weren't very clear what point(s) you were trying to make. It *looked* like you were criticising the things you were quoting from Ben.

Quote:

CVs for job application can be checked

But often aren't, because it's too much trouble. (Sure, for high-paying jobs you are more likely to be checked.)

Author of the PortablE programming language.

Anonymous

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

@ChrisH

Quote:

Quote:

What has this got to do with the price of fish?

Dunno, it was quite hard to discern what you were actually ranting about, so I took a best-guess.

Funny, everyone else managed to discern it wasn't a rant, that it was a bit of good natured fun.

Quote:

Quote:

I believe I said as much.

Perhaps you could summarise what you were trying to say then? You weren't very clear what point(s) you were trying to make.

If its too much for you, don't reply, wait for the headache to fade

Seriously though "its unenforceable" as well as NotYo points out, likely to end up with people without the "right stuff".

Quote:

Quote:

CVs for job application can be checked

But often aren't, because it's too much trouble. (Sure, for high-paying jobs you are more likely to be checked.)

You saying Hyperion and TrevorD don't value their not-so-uber secret Amiga world domination plans? That they won't undertake effective checks?

Shurley shome mistake. Oh! I see what you did there

You were actually agreeing with me all along.

NotYo

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 10:21 #7

Just popping in

@ChrisH

Do you deliberately misread what people are saying, just so you can have a go at them?

Because, this isn't the first time I've seen this behaviour from you, not by a looooong shot.

SLayeRDK

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 10:48 #8

Amigans Defender

@DaveP

Sarcasm and irony are easily misunderstood, remember that when you are being fun.

Thats it is easy doesnt make it right.

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit.

Anonymous

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

@SLayeRDK

I'd call it satire, and it wasn't easy. But even if you extract the fun out of it I make the point in the first few lines - and the last paragraph or so. You'd have to be a myopic camel or determined to have a hissy fit to fail to spot it.

Seeings you are determined to call it as "not right", can you explain a little as to what is "not right"?

Or was that just an easy thing to say? In which case I'm bemused as to why you think its right

It must be a slow day in otherworld.

Edited by DaveP on 2010/5/30 11:21:13

SLayeRDK

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 11:22 #10

Amigans Defender

@DaveP

Quote:

I'd call it satire, and it wasn't easy. But even if you extract the fun out of it I make the point in the first few lines - and the last paragraph or so. You'd have to be a myopic camel or determined to have a hissy fit to fail to spot it.

Or just not accustomed to english like you. That people have a short fuse dosnt make it right to light it.

Quote:

Seeings you are determined to call it as "not right", can you explain a little as to what is "not right"?

Or was that just an easy thing to say? In which case I'm bemused as to why you think its right

The word i didnt use was baiting, whats right here is up to the ToS and the moderators enforcing it.

P.S. now dont let the schedule slip to long.

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit.

Anonymous

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

#11

@SLayeRDK

Quote:

Or just not accustomed to english like you. That people have a short fuse dosnt make it right to light it.

Those who do not grok a language should be damn careful before they take offense as their understanding might be faulty. For sure I exercise the same self restraint when I read and listen in French.

However, that someone decides to get the hump about something does not automatically make something offensive. More often than not someone uses the tool of "offensive" or "he lit my fuse" to exert some control over what they are reading because they lack sufficient self control to page down or go for a walk.

Quote:

Quote:

Or was that just an easy thing to say? In which case I'm bemused as to why you think its right

The word i didnt use was baiting, whats right here is up to the ToS and the moderators enforcing it.

Feel free to bring it up with me on the moderators forum as to what you specifically think is not right and what you think is "baiting". After all, with this thread so far I'm looking a little like a pin cushion from a certain angle and you don't see me reaching for the moderator's gun.

Antique

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 12:43 #12

Home away from home

@DaveP

Who gets scared of an old man with a watergun????

Quote:

After all, with this thread so far I'm looking a little like a pin cushion from a certain angle and you don't see me reaching for the moderator's gun.

X5000

LiveForIt

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 16:42 #13

Home away from home

@DaveP

It defiantly needs a bit of work,
Maybe if you changed the style from plan text to a cartoon are you any good at painting?

(NutsAboutAmiga)

Basilisk II for AmigaOS4
AmigaInputAnywhere
Excalibur
and other tools and apps.

Anonymous

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

#14

@LiveForIt

Oh defiantly

Antique

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 18:03 #15

Home away from home

@DaveP

You have too much spare time,get a hobby.

And liveforit has dyslexia.

X5000

Anonymous

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

#16

@Antique

Then he should be a lot more careful about making criticisms about posts needing more work. And you need to be a lot more careful about getting personal.

BillE

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/30 20:09 #17

Quite a regular

@DaveP

Quote:

DaveP wrote:
@Antique

Then he should be a lot more careful about making criticisms about posts needing more work. And you need to be a lot more careful about getting personal.

I do wonder why someone who is supposedly "Supreme Council" and therefore must be a moderator(?) of an Amiga oriented site is being so negative and disparaging about attempts to improve the future of the Amiga.

Just my 2p

Bill.

Anonymous

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

#18

@BillE

Tell me in great detail what is so disparaging and negative.

Present cogent arguments.

Else it all just sounds like yet another person attacking someone for saying something they didn't want to hear, insinuating something about their motivations with no basis.

For what its worth, I applaud Trevor and the OS4 developers. I have an Amiga (several). I want them to succeed. I just don't believe in saying silent when I see something absurd.

Your move.

Rudei

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/31 8:02 #19

Not too shy to talk

@DaveP

Quote:

Feel free to bring it up with me on the moderators forum as to what you specifically think is not right and what you think is "baiting". After all, with this thread so far I'm looking a little like a pin cushion from a certain angle and you don't see me reaching for the moderator's gun.

Moderating on a thread you started would be bad form in my book. so yes you're right not to reach for the moderator's gun.

Rude!

Nissan GTR '08

orgin

Re: DaveP on the beta tester criteria for X1000

Posted on: 2010/5/31 8:11 #20

Supreme Council

@All

I'm locking this thread now since it's not really going anywhere.

Amiga folks are, evidently, not ready for these kinds of discussions without tensions running high. I suggest you all calm down and move along.

A note for those not familiar with the way amigans.net handles moderation. If you want to discuss moderator actions/policies then contact said moderator or any other staff members in private.

Vacca foeda. Sum, ergo edo

Mr Bobo Cornwater

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