A1-X1000 with 2GHz Dual Core POWER?

@vox

Its totally overpriced when seen from outside of the "Amiga" religion. Inside, yeah, I agree, its completely normal.

If Hyperion et al had the balls to completely rewrite the OS and do something startling with it then it might even be worth buying the X1000 dongle to use the OS and applications. But that ain't going to happen.

But, sure, seen as a hobbyist niche bit of kit that acts as a time machine on steroids perhaps its not so bad.

If they had put in two XMOS chips instead of one it might be more interesting. That at least would give an environment that out of the wrapping could be used for experimentation in parallel processing.

But if it was released with 32bit AmigaOS running on a single core and unable to program the XMOS chip without rebooting into Linux. That .... that would be taking the piss. It would be like expecting you to buy a four bedroom house in a nice parkland and then only giving you the key to a crappy studio flat inside it.

They either release a proper, interesting version of AmigaOS that exploits most if not all the features on release for it, or they deserve all the scorn they are going to get. It really is their (Hyperion's) last chance with the rest of the world to make even something that doesn't inspire ridicule.

One thing has come out of this for me, I'm interested in XMOS to the point where I've downloaded the simulator. Here's a thing, you could buy a Sam AND a 64 way XMOS board for less than the X1000 is likely to cost.

https://www.xmos.com/products/development-kits/xmp-64

* 16 x XS1-G4 four-core devices connected as a 4-D hypercube using 5b XMOS links
* 25.6 GIPS
* 512 threads
* 4Mbytes RAM
* 512Kbytes OTP memory
* Round trip time between 200ns and 1us
* Each edge of the hypercube provides a bandwidth of 1.6 Gbit/s in each direction
* Processor grid measures 120 x 120 mm

But if people were really serious about this XMOS value add, they would have bought the USB based ones and downloaded the simulator to get ahead of the curve and make sure that something (anything) that shows how this feature might be used is ready on release.

@DaveP
Quote:
A couple of points:
1. When communicating between XMOS threads, you can't tell whether you are comminicating with another thread on the same chip or a different chip! So all code you write is automatically ready for "parallel processing" using multiple XMOS chips.

2. All we need is someone to build a Xorro card with several XMOS chips on, and the X1000 can talk to them just as well as if they were on-board anyway. This seems a smart move - keeps the X1000 cost down, but expandable to whatever someone wants. (I'm sure there would be complaints how-ever many XMOS chips they put on it.)

Quote:
No, I think that's the reality of our small market. If you want X1000 features which are not yet accessibly to OS4, then you wait. Those of us who don't desperatly need those features can get an X1000 straight away.

I mean, Sam440 h/w supports USB2, but OS4 still doesn't (publically). Annoying, but as long as people know before buying, there shouldn't be a problem.

I wonder how much cheaper the board could be if it was simpler.

- Less USB ports to the back of the case. (perhaps some extra headers around SB600)
- no PCI slots
- no CF slot
- 1+1 DDR2 slots (instead of 2+2)
- Only one PCIe x16 slot + one x1..x8 slot + the x1+xorro slot
- no RS232 port (perhaps one header on board)

I imagine there would be less testing after every broduced board -> cheaper board.

@ChrisH

Quote:

You can certainly consider it a black box, but thats not the reality of the situation, nor is it what I am getting at. Perhaps this will enlighten you: You might as well say to me "ah, yeah, but Hadoop works the same no matter whether you have one node or a dozen!".

Quote:
Then you might as well leave the XMOS chip off and save 40 quid off the price if you are going down that line argument. After all, you will only use what you want! Its a fact of life that developers only write for what they know for certain a user has. i.e. If the ZX Spectrum had shipped with a lightgun in every incarnation there would have been masses of lightgun based games out there. The whole POINT of the Amiga was that it came with cool stuff that made your job easier.

I see neither of these as effective counterpoints, merely interesting footnotes to a discussion.


Quote:
The reality of the small market? I'm sorry do you realise you are talking about the whole point of the board? What makes it worth 1,500? Do you KNOW how long it will take OS4 to support those features in a version accessible to the end user? Lets say its 18 months before it supports SMP (but still runs 32 bit mode). Why wait? Why not buy a Sam 460 now? Or a MacMini and MorphOS?

If you are saying that the reality of the small market is that its populated by people who will fork out 4 times as much for hardware that they can only use a quarter of the power for and will sit there using something the resembles in all but name "crippleware" then yes, that does sound like the reality of the market. To me, its bordering on insanity. At least when you bought an XE you could use it with AmigaOS beta-releases using its full power from moment one. Sure, a lot was still in 68k but it progressed rapidly FROM that base of being a 32bit PPC kernel.

Quote:
You are comparing USB2 support with the ability to use a 64 bit CPU with both cores at full speed and address all the memory on board?

.....

I've never used these words before but "epic fail".

@DaveP
In almost every post you've made in recent weeks, you come across as very angry & frustrated. Seemingly about nearly anything. (And as such I'm not sure it's worth-while arguing with you.)

I would have made this point privately, but it seems you stopped reading my PMs (at least the last one, where I explained you TOTALLY misread what I was saying in the previous PM).

@ChrisH

Quote:

And when your technical arguments fail you, attack the person.

You keep sending offensive, patronising and downright rude PMs to me expecting me to justify myself to you. I would like you to stop. If you can't keep your replies on topic, you will get moderated. If you want to make me the topic in public, then you make my point for me.

Now come on, I'm sure your cupboard really isnt THAT bare?

I'm really not interested in cod psychoanalysis. It didn't work when Ben Hermans tried it on amigaworld.net, it doesn't work when a bunch of you try and get together as a pack, but it IS an effective tactic to give Rigo or Orgin an excuse to move this from the front page. I suggest you quit it, right now.

I don't see why you all get so up in arms over the fact someone is pointing out, as the parade passes, that they can see the Emperor's willy.

@NotYo

Because it represents a threat to a mythology thats been built up. The best answer to what I'm saying is for Hyperion to deliver, on time, before December, OS4.x SMP 64bit even if its only got some demonstration applications to go with its release and everything else works in a sandbox type 32 bit mode or a dual boot into a 32bit OS4.1 update (x).

If their response is instead to attack me (again) rather than just get their heads down and do that then obviously they are nervous about delivering something that makes the board worth it. That is the impression that HyperionMP gave me on amigaworld.net - as did the pack of chihuahua who took his lead and started attacking me with the same meme all over.

Heck, even a vague roadmap that sayes, hey guys, you get a 32bit version that doesn't support SMP before Xmas, and then 6 months after that is what you'll have to wait for SMP, then another 12 for 64bit and 3 years before applications and games take advantage would allow the consumer to make the kind of up front judgement that ChrisH is claiming everyone can make right now would be better than what seems to be in the public domain.

Deliver that, and the emperor has expensive clothes. Don't deliver, and its yet another opportunity for the Amiga OS4 marketplace to be mocked mercilessly. I don't see how it could come back from another re-run of 2003/2004/2005 myself.

So... let me get this straight. Are you guys saying that the PUBLIC launch will be without 64 bit support and SMP?

Whoa... why bother?

Because, if you're trying to spin THAT as unimportant...

...you spin me right round, baby, right round, like a record baby, right round, round round...

@NotYo

I'm saying IF they do that, it will be a disaster of epic proportions. We are back to the studio flat inside the four bedroom house with palatial gardens scenario.

(And yes, that is the backroom gossip, if it is the truth then, well.... "oh dear" doesn't quite cover it).

I have to agree with DaveP.

I am keen to buy the X1000 myself, I find myself in the lucky position at the moment where I could easily afford one of these whatever the price maybe, but even so the expense has to justifiable.

Personally the launch date doesn't mean much to me as long it isn't delayed drastically. Like Trevor repeatedly said at the VCF, lets get this right, lets get this right first time, as this is the last chance for Amiga. So with that in mind, for me at least I don't care so much whether it is held back till the Autumn as long as full or near-full software driver support for all aspects of the hardware is in place.
I am quite sure the average joe bloggs will be happy enough to accept further software updates/patches shortly afterwards if there are some minor/not-so-minor things that need correcting.

In retrospect all this talk about the X1000 is great for the consumer, but if it was in Trevor's shoes I wouldn't even bother logging on to any Amiga forum until launch date; just accepting PMs only as this will just escalate all summer as people become both excited and anxious to see this materialise.

Immediate goals are delete A-Eon website, replace it with something non-geekified, add a days-to-release countdown timer! Post once a week with an update so everyone knows what is going on on a news page.

To finish make sure the X1000 does what it says on the box and have the OS take advantage of both cores; the fundamentals at least. Software updates can address any imbalances afterwards.

IMHO: the half year delay of x1000 release should give Hyperion more time to prepare something for ASMP & 64bit. I hope they manage to deliver something when x1000 is in shops, perhaps AOS4.1 stabile + AOS4.2 alpha in multiboot setup.

@KimmoK

It is very interesting - or sometimes more or less overwhelming - what kind of expectations are discussed in the forums when it comes to the X1000 project...

@derfs

It was also mentioned that one could change the CPU speed "on the fly", which is a unique feature of the mystical CPU, so yes.

@Kicko

Oh absolutely, yes

@vox

Reading of your long post, i completely understand your concern for the price. In that case, there is another alternative, and that would be SAM460..

Like i said in one of the previous posts, both SAM460 and X1000 will be excellent systems, and the most modern Amigas ever. If you can't afford the X1000, then go for SAM460...

@Daedalus

Forgot that Trevor mentioned the price in Pound, while i was thinking about the Euro, but i doubt it will get up to the size of 2000. Somewhere in the middle...

Only logical thinking from my point of view...

@DaveP

Quote:

And then.

Quote:

??????

Looks like I'm going to need two X1000 and probably 1 next gen A1 (X500?).

@mechanic

If you hadn't quote mined, you'd have followed the line of argument.

Anyways in regard to topic title.

I am pretty sure Trevor mumbled in one of the many videos from VCF that it was a 2GHz processor pegged back to 1.8 GHz and hindered by the debug mode. So it would seem 2GHz may well be the top-end spec. Where technology stands at the moment 2GHz is far more than the average user (internet user especially) needs unless your a 'PC' gamer.

The biggest market for any OS these days is the online world which is of course why FireFox is at the no.1 top spot of the 'must-have' software download; and that goes for any platform.

Hmm probably wrong thread, but several people mentioned OpenOffice for AmigaOS will be available for download sometime this year. Do we actually know who is doing the port as googling doesn't help any - this one is being kept very hush hush.