A1-X1000 with 2GHz Dual Core POWER?

@DaveP

I kindof agree on the SMP part, but why should one care if the 64-bit is used? It's not like anyone is currently reaching the memory limits of 32-bit anyway on OS4.
Besides that, are there dual-core PPC processors available (!) that are equally fast, 32-bit and cheaper? If so, you have a point, otherwise they just went with the fastest one and got 64-bit capability as a 'bonus' which may or may not be used in future.

@DaveAE

I kindof agree on the SMP part, but why should one care if the 64-bit is used? It's not like anyone is currently reaching the memory limits of 32-bit anyway on OS4.
Besides that, are there dual-core PPC processors available (!) that are equally fast, 32-bit and cheaper? If so, you have a point, otherwise they just went with the fastest one and got 64-bit capability as a 'bonus' which may or may not be used in future.

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A-Eon's aim is not to produce another run-of-the-mill system, but to leap us forward into 2010. Offering a 64-bit operating system can only be looked at as a positive addition there is no downside to that I can see. Snow Leopard came out in Q4 of 2009 as did Win 7 both offering 64-bit it would make sense for A-Eon to do exactly the same.

I keep talking from the average-joe pov - and the average-joe pov is, hmm 64 is a larger number than 32 so that must mean its better. It would be kind of ridiculous to release a 32-bit OS considering all the major players have or are in the process of going 64-bit.

TBH I don't know what all the fuss is about I've used both Leopard (32-bit) and Snow Leopard (64-bit) there is no f-ing difference between the two performance-wise and most applications (aside from the Apple applications) still run in 32-bit mode anyway.

@DaveAE

You make a good point, I'm thinking of the price per GIPS ratio in all this. What makes the "secret" chip worthwhile. 64 bit support would just make the Amiga look like it had taken a quantum leap forward whilst other OS are getting bogged down on ghastly looking hardware like the e-Mac.

@djrikki

I guess you're missing my point, but I'm not good at explaining.

What I meant was this: let's say you have a choice between:
A) processor at 800 MHz / 32-bit
B) processor at 1.2 GHz / 32-bit
C) processor at 2.0 GHz / 32- and 64-bit

And basically want the fastest processor, then you would go for option C and hey, if at any time in future there will be 64-bit, great! But for now it doesn't matter. Which is why I didn't understand DaveP's 'OS4 must have 64-bit in December or otherwise...'.

If there was a:
D) processor at 2.0 GHz / 32-bit and cheaper

Then I could imagine that people think option C is a bad choice for now.

Quote:
I don't think comparing AmigaOS to Windows or OSX is relevant. It's almost like you are saying that AmigaOS would be competition and that AmigaOS lost potential users when not going 64-bit anytime soon because other systems have it.

@DaveAE

No, it was "DaveP's 64bit and SMP and XMOS support on release - or a decent roadmap that allows people to work out whether/when they want to get on board or not (that is, when to expect jumps in computing power)" - or else.

The or else is simply PR disaster. I realise thats nothing NEW in the Amiga OS 4.x world but still.

Its like releasing the A1000 in the 1980s and you are unable to use the custom chipset and you are stuck using the 68k in some kind of weird 68008 mode or at 3.5MHz and no idea when you are able to use the rest.

OK, its not like that, because then they had the marketing clout of Commodore and the success of the C64 and the computing world wasn't so damned monolithic. Its actually far worse.

Especially as it is a board thats supposedly been designed for OS4.

@DaveAE

Nothing wrong with just comparing technology against each other regardless of who it is from or market-share.

History is a curious beast and full of surprises, as long as there is fresh Amiga hardware that can run office software (OpenOffice) and a decent browser (FireFox) Amiga will always be around - how popular it becomes is down to many variables.

@DaveP

Ok, still they can either
A) release it as fast as they can and people can buy a faster machine with PCI-express (and hopefully less buggy than the A1!) and enjoy that now while they wait for all functionality to become unleashed or
B) wait for a long period (years?) until they have everything in place to make full use out of the system (64-bit, SMP, XMOS, whatever)

I'm sure there will be more people who prefer A over B in this niche world.

@DaveAE

Your assuming Amiga will always be niche, that doesn't have to be the case. A case of watch this space and see A-Eon can pull out there bag.

@DaveAE

Quote:

Agreed, but given they have been working on this MAP for over a year now its not as if they are starting from scratch.

The mistake here was to expose to the world's press (via The Register and then BBC's Click which has yet to show) "exciting" hardware that later on will be a major embarassment if the OS doesn't support it. Its an unforgiving world out there.

They get SMP done, the world will forgive a lot. They get XMOS done, the world will forgive a bit more. They get 64 bit done on top of that, the world will go "meh, ok, so its a 64 bit ppc running RebootOS". OK, not initially, but if anyone from outside of the Community picks it up and plays with it for more than 10 minutes they are in for the shock of their life with the first lockup.

Production quality these days unfortunately requires such a big jump for Hyperion et al to break even with, I doubt they will be ready before Xmas 2011 to launch a finished and polished product that the real world might consider done. Hence, they need to start setting expectations, and start setting them now.

What exactly IS their motivation here?

1. To compete with MorphOS? (oh please, how unambitious for the amount of money and time invested) Then shut up about it to the BBC and The Register and just stick to releasing drib drabs of PR on amigaworld.net and amiga.org (and, to a lesser extent here).

2. To create a base platform from which they can do something REALLY special? Then shut up about it to the BBC and The Register and treat X1000 as a staging post to get 64bit SMP and memory protection sorted out - then do something REVOLUTIONARY for two years and surprise us with it as OS 5.0.

3. To sell to a broader market? Then they HAVE to make sure that what they go into production with can exploit the main features from day #1.

I can't see a 4th option, and its no wonder that the PR effort descended from outreach into ad hom on aw.net before VCF.

@all

Perhaps I am maybe the tiniest bit biased as I was a long-term Amiga owner, but nonetheless when I walked around the VCF show the other weekend I saw the new hardware, the SAM, the X1000 and thought to myself 'this does everything I need to do', read the news on the web, maybe write a simple document for home, listen to some music, maybe play some retro game. Thinking in the back of my head 'Flash, FireFox and OpenOffice are just around the corner' what more do I or the typical user want in 2010. If people wanna play a game, they buy a console, if they want to surf the net they buy a desktop.

AmigaOS even with its limited (AT THE MOMENT) software does most of the things home users expect from a computer.

@DaveP

I think I like planet DaveP - someone with his feet firmly on the ground.

@djrikki

Quote:


For 10 minutes, until you click the back button on OWB at the wrong moment and lose all your connections as you end up hitting CTRL-Amiga Amiga.

Which occured for me three times since I installed update 2 yesterday morning.

Quote:

These days they buy a 199 quid netbook.

@DaveP

I'm with you when A-Eon contacted the press themselves, but did they? Or were they just around for the vintage computer fair anyway?

@DaveP

I've heard this word NetBook before - is it basically a Laptop with a smaller screen? aka. iBook for Windows?

@DaveAE

Unfortunately as it was the FIRST vintage computing festival in the United Kingdom at Bletchley Park (which incidentally is why it was pointed out to the organiser as a possible venue, spotted initially on a World Of Spectrum forum) it was going to garner press attention.

It was precisely the kind of thing the BBC were going to attend. The Register was a surprise.

But even with international press there any kind of press training would tell you what to say, and what NOT to say at this point. That is, if you have a business plan you are working to that makes any sense at all. Someone said somewhere you only get one chance to make a first impression. I get the feeling that Hyperion et al have got too used to hanging out at Amiga centric computing fairs where no one turns up and such actions have little consequence.

I get the impression they didn't quite understand the risk of being under prepared for IF it was taken up as a story with legs at the VCF. Or maybe it doesn't matter. But now people are expecting things and the stakes are now huge. Huge as in between establishing SOME kind of credibility even if not sales - and tumbleweed for a long long time.

@djrikki

ASUS 1001, Acer Aspire ONE. Stuff like that. Theres also a raft of IPad like devices hitting the market. Anything that you can buy in Dixons at Stansted airport in the UK

@All

2Ghz! That is truly something!

@DaveP

64bit support ain't so important yet. More important is memory protection and dual core support.

@Antique

Quite true! We hardly have any software that takes advantage of the PPC at all, let alone any which would benefit greatly from 64-bit. Much of the software still in use is 68k - 64 bit will make little difference here except possibly some small improvements in Petunia.

If the OS arrives with 64-bit, you're likely not to notice at all until a while down the road when you get a half-dozen or so apps which show a moderate improvement in speed. But if it arrives with proper dual core support you'll really feel it - 68k emulation on one core and video decoding while web browsing on the other will show you an immediate benefit for example.

@DaveP
Since everything I say ends-up being misunderstood, I can only say this:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that.

(I would of course be happy to discuss this misunderstanding via PM, if you chose.)

@All

I'm locking this now, please continue fitting discussions here:

http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/ ... hp?topic_id=4060&forum=24