Serious AmigaOS future discussion

@DaveP
You seem to have some serious issues with your hardware or OS installation if it crashes that often. The only crashes I have is when I'm low on memory (256Mb is not sufficient for the number of OWB tabs I have open sometimes).

I looked at your list and really fail to see the big problems.

1. ofcourse you have to update if you want to use the newest AmigaOS and the newest software. If everything should be 100% backwards compatible we'd still be using Wb1.3 or whatever... If it is simply a money issue stick to Ubuntu.

2. OWB works fine with Ebay here, never tried TW (see point 4).
3. OWB generally works fine with GMail eventually use the simple html version.
4. Timberwolf works quite ok, but is IMO not ready for everyday use. It boots in 10 sec. though... Apart from the first time where it does the fonts stuff.
5. I fail to share your negativity, AmigaOS is a hobby system for me and does almost replace my pc.

@Troels

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No. No I really don't. Its a fresh install of 4.1 update 2 with the additional patches from Hyperion - absolutely nothing else. Can you guys stop telling me there is something wrong with my machine.


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Good. I look forward to seeing it in a shortly available release.

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Its a joke.

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I don't consider myself negative. I consider myself realistic. I no longer trust AmigaOS 4.x to support me while I work.

@DaveP

What you are describing is intentionnaly (at least I think it is) darker than what it is really.
For example:
- 0) inability to log into ebay : I can't remember really (I bought 4.1 the day it was out, in fact I reserved it the day it was announced) but I can swear at the time I was using 4.0 that AWeb would let me log into ebay (may be not with all the CSS things well displayed, but anyway I would eventually log in).
- 5,6,7 and 8) what ??? As with every online purchase you have to wait after your "immediate purchase" that the goods arrive to your home. If your postal service isn't up to the task then either complain to them, either choose another one, but I don't see how this is Hyperion's fault nor how this is related to AOS 4.x
- 11) FYI update 2 doesn't require fresh install as it is in fact explicitely requiring update 1, so that one point less
- 13) Timberworlf is slow to start the first time, but certainly not up to 3 minutes, it it is the case then you have a serious hardware problem (PIO mode ?)

Anyway I see your point and I agree with you: AmigaOS 4.x in its current form isn't for non Amigan educated end-users. There are too much things one is used to get automatically done by the system which are still required to be manually done by the user under AmigaOS 4.x.

@abalaban
Dave had to put a little extra on the list to make it look of something:)

A lot of the points on the list are NOT valid or would be the same using any OS and making a post like that IMO conflicts a lot with the topic.
Especially as it seems Dave have mentioned other much more relevant points (regarding future of OS4 + X1000) in which I also agree more.

@Troels

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Rather than just say that, say what and why.

Guys, use AmiUpdate to install Humour 1.2 and uninstall Pomposity 99, Pomposity 86 or Pomposity c64, which ever one you have running at present.

@DaveP
First of all if you are running AmigaOS4.0 you should be aware of some of the shortcomings and that an update to 4.1 upd.2 would be a good idea if not mandatory to use newer software. AmigaOS really is a work in progress I have to admit, but personally I find it very usable.

Let's take your list from the point where you have choosen to upgrade. 5-6-7-8 is pretty nessecary with any fysical product.

#11 You don't make a clean install again for update 2
#12 Why would you have to download the Alpha release of Timberwolf?
# 13 It starts slow first time, in ten seconds 2nd time. Ok for an Alpha release?
#14 Don't use an alpha version of
#15 Timberwolf when you have a more stable
#16 OWB.
#17 Whatever OS you use you have to make a bid yourself?

#?%& Follow Mikey_C' instructions at your own risk

#19 Again a point that has nothing to do with AmigaOS4
#21 same as above

#22 AmigaOS and printers have unfortunately always been troublesome which needs to be changed in the future and I could see if you had spend most of your time at this point.

@NotYo

100%
No updates available

@Troels

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I've already said many times that I'm on 4.1 update 2 with the Hyperion patches. I normally enjoy your insightful contributions but its quite frustrating having a discussion with someone who clearly hasn't read the thread entire before they post. Perhaps it is a language barrier. The "list" was a joke sequence of instructions intended to make a point whilst making you laugh.

I'd hoped it was clear enough, if not by the post itself but by the followups.

@Troels

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Its the Amiga, its always behind the curve

@DaveP

1) Use Linux and live happy..

@afxgroup

I think that sayes it all. In my opinion thats exactly the problem with the Amiga at the moment. Instead of raising the game and saying "yeah, we can do this, its just going to take us some time" and thinking "what can we do next with what we've got?" its "you got a problem? go away".

That depresses me more than I can express. It should depress you too.

@DaveP

I think people are trying to make things happen. But not easy. I try my share. But i'm no good programmer.

When i saw there was no recent port of a bittorent program, i ported a newer ctorrent. And when i started collecting blu rays, i made blu manager.

But when it comes to the AOS, one day we want 64bit and dual core and memory protection. The most important for average joe, i believe, is memory protection. The average user won't notice dual core or 64bit. But tehy will notice all the system crashes.

@Antique

Just curious.
Where would you rank the printing system on a priority basis? After memory protection?

#6

@number6

Hmmm. Maybe not the right person to ask,since i never print anything. But as probably many people use printers,it should be very high priority alongside scanner support/software.

@number6

I think printing is very important! In the old AmigaOS 3.x, it was already sometimes a hazzle to make some printers work. Luckily I had Turboprint. But I think this is a very basic thing that needs to be supported by the OS itself.
The OS should detect common printers connected via USB and install the drivers for it.
As you pointed out rightfully, it is very difficult to approach users that have not seen an Amiga before and say stuffs like:

"Hey we have this new X1000 Amiga, it's very cool and fast, therefore it costs 1800 EUR. But sorry, printing is not implemented yet, you only have to follow these 47 steps and pray a mantra until the hardwares work."

@DaveP

i'm not depress if when i open a shell it fits the entire screen. I'll change the parameters on the tooltypes and everything is fine. Try to do this on Windows XP for example.
Sorry, but i don't understand you. I know what you think about OS4 and many things are correct but this doesn't mean that OS4 is not usable for most of the daily things like surfing or reading mail.
We haven't an os that can swap our main daily windows/mac/linux machines because it lacks a lot of things but OS4 it is far to be unusable.
Even if you don't think so, there is something wrong with your installation/machine

@afxgroup

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Windows never opened up full width screen no matter the resolution. It was an example of something positive, a small change to the defaults, which made me very happy indeed to see. I can understand why you've focussed on it, its certainly easier to retort about than any of the other points but the silly thing is - that was me saying "attaboy, you did something really thoughtful there guys!".

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That is quite evident. I suggest that you might consider that something is lost in translation for you.

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I would not use OS4 for surfing. But I do more in my daily job than that. I edit vast amounts of source code. I manage servers. I run builds. I would quite happily continue to use Filer and a syntax highlighting editor but I would never do that at the same time as using it for surfing. Why? Crash. I learned, like you have (and perhaps have forgotten) what applications to avoid running. But you can't tell in advance whats going to crash or lock up or make your system unstable! That is why memory protection is so damn vital even if it does break some ghastly 1980s paradigm.

There are a whole host of application type things I would easily work around (I ended up using SMBFS instead of SSHFS, I ended up installing a telnet server on a linux vmware image so I could run my builds without having to put up with various ssh bugs on amigaos).

But when it comes down to it, after the nth frustrating crash in a day, or using the KVM to switch to Ubuntu just to browse, you end up STAYING on Ubuntu because you know no matter how sluggish the windowing system is in comparison, you aren't going to have to reset just because you clicked the wrong button at the wrong moment. Heck, a few months ago a high profile OS4 developer was telling people in #amigans NOT to connect to IRC it using AmigaOS because of all the disconnects!

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There isn't. Unless you are saying theres something seriously wrong with a vanilla install of OS4 update 2. Funny really, if I avoid launching OWB or a few other apps altogether and don't actually DO anything on it OS4 can stay up for days.

@number6
I see memory protection as way more important than a printing system. Crashes are a pain when they happen and everything is locked. Printing on the other hand is something I don't use but for those who really need it it's not impossible either.

I think the core OS fundamentals (whatever they are) needs to be in place before we start on all the nice to have extras that won't be needed by everyone.

@DaveP
I didn't get the joke, must be a language problem. I saw your reference to Kay's problems (which I never read about - just saw the topic) and thought it was an attempt to describe how difficult it could be to go from 4.0 to 4.1 upd.2 with printer installed.

When I referred to the "list" in my first post I ment not your first post but the printer sequence.

Regarding your first post with the highlighted points I agree 100% this is stuff we need sooner rather than later but we all know that money need to be made for stuff to get developed. It will probably take a long time before we get it all but I hope we will get there.