This statement is 5 years old, as you noticed, so many things changed too...
Speaking of ancient comments, I remember reading some comments from laire (the person who accepts the MorphOS licensing money) many years ago that MUI is part of MorphOS' identity and should not be shared especially with perceived competitors.
Now, these are old comments but it does bring up the problem of product discriminators. These could be trademarks, features, APIs or even perceived attitudes that separate your product from all the others.
@all Before attacking, take a step back and remember that everybody is looking for that special something that makes their product unique. Given the closeness of the APIs and shared user base, there is an intense marketing campaign going on here whether you are aware of it or not. We could call it all "politics" but it really is all about marketing.
The same goes for any "free" systems (e.g. AROS) and it is even worse for them because they are competing with all the other free systems out there. I think this is very likely why AROS still doesn't have tens of thousands of users even though it has virtually free hardware and open software--that isn't nearly enough to compete with the likes of Haiku.
I suppose my main point is that nobody is an angel here so don't waste your time trying to find one.
Well, that's the point yes (if i understood your post correctly). Each OS obviously must have its own identity and added value. Giving any key element to the competitors is hardly an option in this regard.
On the other hand, API aren't really affected the same way, and you can try to make them as much interoperable as possible, hence my suggestion of implementing some of the missing MUI classes, the alternative being to adapt them in applications using them, not sure what would be more work there. Another example of this is AROS currently implementing some of the cybergraphx/intuition MorphOS extensions. They also implemented some MUI4 features for dtpic.mui in Zune, for instance.
Mui is verry special. largely used on AOS3.x since lots of years, a majority of 68k programs use MUI.
This is why MUI should be the same on AOS3, AOS4, morphOS, AROS IMHO.
For example, if someone ask the same but for triton, the best is to make makeCD without triton IMHO but for MUI, It's not possible to change to another GUI lots of old and new programs who use MUI.
Even if I have my MUI 68K on the SAM, no problem for me for paying again for MUI for AOS4 as shareware or on a big bounty
I'm for the same program for all platform and I was verry diseapointed about morphos wo not allow to make AOS4 port
A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+IIYAMA 17"+CD,CDRW,ZIP SCSI-KIT SAM440EP on Mapower 3000+AOS4.1
Suddenly I feel good that I have not registered MOS team product yet. ...
UPDATE: but with time, I'll get over it...
Edited by KimmoK on 2010/7/29 6:45:56
- Kimmo --------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------ "PowerPC Operating Systems can use a microkernel architecture with all it�s advantages yet without the cost of slow context switches." - N. Blachford
Well, i didn't want to bring this to the table, but with your kind of comment, it's tempting. If you think the MorphOS team blocks MUI somehow, then you might want to know that RoadShow has been restricted to OS4 by a contract several years ago even though a 68k version would have been possible at that time. The same more or less happened with directory opus magellan. So do you feel good to have registered OS4 now? :)
So do you feel good to have registered OS4 now? :)
Speaking about registering, I remember when I registered MUI with the SASG it said something about "quality control" and "regular updates" which sadly failed to materialize.
And yeah, I now wish I had never registered it.
Seriously, if you do want to contact me write me a mail. You're more likely to get a reply then.
Comments made in any post are personal opinion, and are in no-way representative of any commercial entity unless specifically stated as such. ---- http://codebench.co.uk
>If I see the software released the last 2 days I see: >- an emulator for Atari's Lynx
Not a particularly small project IMHO. What I don't understand is why this developer has ported the SDL version of Handy (ie. the one which has most features stripped out), instead of just recompiling my native OS3.x version, which has many more features which are not available in *any* other version of Handy, eg. gameplay recording/playback. I don't think many people are going to prefer using his version, unless they don't realize about the other version.
To me AOS is the continuation of the old (untill it's updated to unrecognizable?), so I forgive it some more.
+MUI affects all of the SW development while roadshow, magellan, etc, are more like sand grains in sahara.
Other than that, all politics that hurt the community is bad. (go AROS go !)
btw. Is anyone porting Magellan to AOS4? Or realsoft 3D? Gallium3D?
Edited by KimmoK on 2010/7/29 8:32:24
- Kimmo --------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------ "PowerPC Operating Systems can use a microkernel architecture with all it�s advantages yet without the cost of slow context switches." - N. Blachford
What I don't understand is why this developer has ported the SDL version of Handy (ie. the one which has most features stripped out), instead of just recompiling my native OS3.x version, which has many more features which are not available in *any* other version of Handy, eg. gameplay recording/playback.....
this is just a missing ideas. Now, with your post, surely an AOS4 programmer will maybe port it to AOS4.
If you said that that mean surely easily portable to AOS4 and source available????
Edited by Mrodfr on 2010/7/29 10:06:44 Edited by Mrodfr on 2010/7/29 10:07:15 Edited by Mrodfr on 2010/7/29 10:07:51 Edited by Mrodfr on 2010/7/29 10:08:21
A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+IIYAMA 17"+CD,CDRW,ZIP SCSI-KIT SAM440EP on Mapower 3000+AOS4.1
This is obviously a difficult topic. MUI4 has become one of the key technologies of MorphOS, part of its identity, and its current incarnation uses lots of MorphOS specific features too (whether it was made conditionally or not, so that a "68k" build is still possible, i don't know). So it's not really likely that such a technology is given just like that.
I can certainly understand those as reasons, but IMHO that is only looking at half the picture (see next answer).
Quote:
Besides, what answer do you think MorphOS users would receive if they asked for OS4 Reaction (or anything else) port? I suspect that would be a no, without further explanation. :)
I think MUI is an unusual situation, even compared to ReAction:
Although ReAction was a 3rd-party add-on, it got absorbed into OS3.5 as the official GUI solution (long before MOS existed), and hence was continued to be used by OS4. So ReAction exists, albiet in a much older state, for OS3 (which MOS happens to be able to use). I think it's reasonable that *any* OS improvements (not just GUI) added in OS4 don't get back-ported to OS3, because OS4 was designed to succeed OS3. In which case the argument for a (free) MOS port of ReAction is greatly diminished, although I personally wouldn't object to it.
On the other hand, MUI3 was always a 3rd-party add-on for OS3 & later OS4. Although I don't know how MUI4 arose, somehow it became MOS-only, which feels wrong from my not-knowing perspective. Thus MUI4 for at least OS4 (if not also OS3 & even AROS) would seem the right thing to happen.
That would also happen to seriously ease porting apps between OSes. I'm sure some would short-sightedly only see one-sided MOS->OS4 ports, but if MUI4 was available for OS4 (and OS3) then I'm sure some OS4 (and OS3) apps would be written using MUI4, and could thus more easily be ported to MOS. Thus it would eventually benefit MOS.
It seems that some SW (from both sides) are being used as wepons against the competition and the user community suffers from that.
- Kimmo --------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------ "PowerPC Operating Systems can use a microkernel architecture with all it�s advantages yet without the cost of slow context switches." - N. Blachford
Yes, the source is included, just like with all my other releases. And it should be easily portable. Eg. sound is AHI-based, input uses lowlevel.library, etc. In fact it already does run on OS4 AFAIK, but obviously a native PPC version would run faster. Someone did do a MOS port a while back.
On the subject of MUI, I don't agree that "the majority of 68K applications use it". I think even if I only looked at what has been released this year, I would find that less than half the apps use it. When looking at the entire existing base of 68K Amiga applications, the percentage becomes even less. Unfortunately it is widely used, but luckily not by "the majority" of apps.
erm...where do you get your "facts" from? I've read multiple posts in this thread about how MUI4 was being "kept" from OS4 users.
Quote:
only a MOS version is available at the moment since that's the system I use for developing. no keyfile needed, no timeouts. there was supposed to be something for OS4 too, but folks over there were (and still are) unable to supply a machine for porting.
To me it seems very official statement because it's still online etc. Where's your citation from?
- Kimmo --------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------ "PowerPC Operating Systems can use a microkernel architecture with all it�s advantages yet without the cost of slow context switches." - N. Blachford
To me it seems very official statement because it's still online etc.
And it supports the later citation I just made. In particular "i also thought that a unified MUI4 would benefit everyone."
My citation, from months later, obviously indicates things had changed again. Not only did he desire to do this, he was merely awaiting hardware to do the port. Does that not sound like progress regarding the "team"?
It's from the release notes, which are quite extensive.
- Kimmo --------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------ "PowerPC Operating Systems can use a microkernel architecture with all it�s advantages yet without the cost of slow context switches." - N. Blachford
Zune is a reimplementation of MUI, just like AROS reimplements the rest of AmigaOS. Still the best way if they don't want to be tied to any kind of license or individuals.
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