Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

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ShInKurO

Posted on: 2010/8/21 16:11 #1

Just popping in

MUI is perhaps the only valid API for UI which identify the Amiga out of Amiga community: who has used AmigaOS between 1993 and 2001 (when Amiga community was very powerful and was able to mantain in life our platform) knows all most useful Amiga applications were written in MUI and old developers remember how was fun and easy to write a program with MUI.

Who has left Amiga community was inspired by MUI experience to written many projects which are used in other platforms. When OS3.5 was annunced without MUI many developers left Amiga community because for them MUI was an important part of the Amiga experience.

So we can state MUI is an historical piece of AmigaOS like IPC ARexx and Datatypes concepts.

MUI APIs are avaiable in all Amiga flavours in different forms and versions:

OS3 : MUI3.8
OS4 : MUI3.9
Mos : MUI4
AROS: Zune (MUI3.8 compatible)

However, excluding MorphOS, MUI is a shareware framework, which in form of not register software doesn't give to user some of its features (extreme personalization of UI).

Zune is an open source implementation of MUI which is included in AROS project, it is compatible with MUI3.8 APIs and it has some features which are missed on MUI3.8. In the latest years Zune was ported from AROS to AmigaOS3, and so the only MUI registered features and Zune modern features can be used on OS3 for free.
Zune is even ready to be ported on OS4.

Many OS4/AROS/OS3 users are interested to have software like OWB-MOS and Ambient on their systems, but these software use new API of MUI4, so the better way to have these software on OS4/AROS/OS3 would be to have MUI4 on these systems.
However MUI author seems not to be interested to do a port of his latest framework version to OS4/AROS/OS3, so only MorphOS users can use these software and only MorphOS developers can use MUI4 for their software.

We want create a bounty to make Zune MUI4 compatible. In a similar form Zune can give to their users software like OWB-MorphOS and Ambient with few work on system where Zune is avaiable.
To third parts developers a Zune MUI4 compatible would give an easy way to write their software in a easy portable way between different Amiga flavours without too much work because they could use a only powerful framework API instead to workaround different behaviours of MUI3.8/MUI3.9/Zune.

So we have a first draft of a bounty "To make Zune MUI4 compatible":

FIRST STEP
Quote:

@saimon69
Debug current Zune codebase and,where possible, improve existing MUI 3.x
compatibility adding missing functions and fixing current broken features,

Quote:

@Ball000
1. Port Fab1's OWB. Seems it mainly means "Implement in Zune MUI4 functions needed to compile Fab1's OWB" (of course the port itself would need some other work (improve CAIRO?), so this bounty can't be only Zune-related);

Quote:

@Fab
That would indeed be the most practical way. I don't think i'd like to have tons of "duplicated" code in OWB just because previous MUI versions didn't support methods for construction/display and co, for instance.

SECOND STEP
Quote:

@Ball000
2. Implement MUI4 functions needed to compile Ambient (but yet again, the port of Ambient will need other works to be done, especially system functions, as Ambient relies on some specific improvements of MorphOS);

Quote:

@bernd_afa
Sebastian Bauer have zune port to run on OS4.there are some os4 ifdefs in.

Quote:

@ShInKurO
This Zune enhancement would be very good even for an eventual port of Ambient on AROS/OS3/OS4 and to make Ambient in this way what DirectoryOpus Magellan was for AmigaOS some years ago.

THIRD STEP
Quote:

@Ball000
3. Implement remaining functions of MUI4 in Zune.

Other discussions about this topic are:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/v ... p?topic_id=32260&forum=15
http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/vi ... t_id=45752#forumpost45752

328gts

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/21 16:21 #2

Home away from home

@ShInKurO

I think it's a great idea !

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kas1e

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/21 16:48 #3

Home away from home

Having Reaction as the main official way, and Zune (mui4) as one more 3d party gui toolkit for making cross-compiling more easy - are very nice idea.

Not sure through, will amigabounty accept bounty which mean aos4+aros at one time ?

Join us to improve dopus5!
AmigaOS4 on youtube

ShInKurO

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/21 17:01 #4

Just popping in

@kas1e

I don't think, we should open it on http://www.power2people.org/

Antique

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/21 19:09 #5

Home away from home

@ShInKurO

I'm too old to learn yet another gui.

X5000

Kicko

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/22 0:04 #6

Just can't stay away

@Antique

Your too old to do anything :p
Now tell me what you wanted me to try out as im back in Sweden.

@Shinkuro

It would be lovely if Zune would be mui4 compatible and run under OS4/AROS :)

MaximvsPayne

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/22 18:30 #7

Just popping in

thats a great idea - work on zune is good for any amiga-like system. thumbs up!!!

ChrisH

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/22 21:56 #8

Home away from home

Reposting a post I made on AmigaWorld:

Quote:

@Fab Quote:
Without MUI4 clone, if we just take the list example (there are of course other cases), it wouldbe done ... by implementing of list subclass adding the missing functionality, meaning less changes to the OWB files (of course doing that is a bit the same as improving MUI/Zune

For anyone not clear: Fab suggests writing a MUI4 compatibility layer which runs on top of MUI3 (and clones), which is used to help compile MUI4 programs like OWB.

I think that is the way it SHOULD be done, where possible, because it will take a lot LESS effort than (1) fixing all of Zune's bugs, (2) adding MUI 3.x functionality missing from Zune, (3) adding/rewriting Zune to be MUI 4.x compatible, and (4) porting Zune to OS4.

For AROS some effort would still need to be done to fix-up Zune's 3.x compatibility, but that'd be a lot less effort, and only the existing Zune developers (on AROS) would need to do it, so no need to worry about trying to convincing non-AROS devs to work on Zune.

To which ShInKurO?replied:
Quote:

If this compatibility layer was to release open source under AROS licence then after it could be integrated into Zune, I believe this could be the right way...

Author of the PortablE programming language.

kolla

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 0:11 #9

Just popping in

Why not have a bounty for paying Stuntzi to open up MUI4?

-- kolla

Tuxedo

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 0:34 #10

Not too shy to talk

@kolla

that's the easyer way but I dubt that the MOS team will left Stefan to do that...
If I remember riht some year ago that thing was already discussed...
However I'm really happy if it happens!

Simone"Tuxedo"Monsignori, Perugia, ITALY.

Antique

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 7:10 #11

Home away from home

@Kicko

I know.

Not to try yet,i need some input from you. We'll take that on PM.

Starting to work again today. So, hopefully back to normal and some time for amiga.

Quote:

Kicko wrote:
@Antique

Your too old to do anything :p
Now tell me what you wanted me to try out as im back in Sweden.

@Shinkuro

It would be lovely if Zune would be mui4 compatible and run under OS4/AROS :)

X5000

Joeled

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 7:30 #12

Quite a regular

Sounds like a good idea!

kolla

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 8:28 #13

Just popping in

@Tuxedo

What? How can the MorphOS team not allow it?

-- kolla

ChrisH

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 9:01 #14

Home away from home

@kolla
5 years ago this is what stopped MUI4 coming to OS3 & OS4:
http://www.sasg.com/mui/mui-mos-statement.txt

I don't know if this still applies. Some have claimed that Stefan simply isn't interested now and/or prefers to bike rather than program. But without a direct answer from Stefan, I am inclined to think the above statement is still one reason. Especially since he could allow someone else to port MUI4, just like he did for MUI3.9 .

Number6 posted something supposedly said by Stefan after the above statement. In that he appears to have decided to ignore those against the port, and instead blames lack of hardware for the missing OS4 port. That may very well have been the case in 2005 (due to OS4's hardware drought) but it certainly isn't the case now! And that still doesn't explain the lack of an OS3 port.

Edited by ChrisH on 2010/8/23 9:17:20
Edited by ChrisH on 2010/8/23 9:30:41

Author of the PortablE programming language.

kas1e

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 9:08 #15

Home away from home

@ChrisH
I think we just need to contact with him, and ask how much money he want for that works.

Join us to improve dopus5!
AmigaOS4 on youtube

Joeled

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 15:15 #16

Quite a regular

@kas1e

I agree!

Troels

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 15:57 #17

Not too shy to talk

We only have some old posts to rely on. A lot could have happened in that time that made Stuntz change his mind.

If anyone is interested in doing the port or want Stuntz to do it why not email him and ask if it's possible and what would be required.

EDIT: Just mailed Stuntz on the SASG email address, don't know if he answers that one?

Edited by Troels on 2010/8/23 16:18:58

Bounty site for AmigaOS4! www.amigabounty.net

number6

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 17:15 #18

Just popping in

@ChrisH

Quote:

And that still doesn't explain the lack of an OS3 port.

OS3.x is an entirely different issue, sadly.

Basically, anything less than 060, would put more stress on the system, due to the improvements and therefore, increased demands on resources by MUI4.

In fact, many classic users indicate 040 as minimum to be effective even with MUI3.8.

#6

Snuffy

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 18:14 #19

Just can't stay away

Hi @ShInKurO

MUI APIs are available in all Amiga flavours in different forms and versions"
And that's a problem...
So we have a first draft of a bounty "To make Zune MUI4 compatible"
I won't support/donate to it. I reached my limits and toleration with Amiga bounties; it's a 'boundary' problem and ZUNE is now overstepping a boundary. You're asking me to support your software interface that supports your program that will run on AresONE and MOS and Amiga OS4. Right? I really getting tired of this Amiga 'trinity' thing. So, who's the 'official' Amiga you want me to support?

number6

Re: Proposal to make Zune MUI4 compatible (Bounty)

Posted on: 2010/8/23 18:43 #20

Just popping in

@Snuffy

Developers and users may well have different opinions on this Snuffy.
Looong time ago I was asked to do a survey behind closed doors, to determine some of the important things from a developer standpoint.
The results were touching really.
Most people just wanted a little feedback...an occasional pat on the back for a job well done...basically some acknowledgement. Perhaps the chance to have more of their work seen by a larger audience.

There are those that seek a solution to meet that end.
Possibilities of an MUI4 port and Shinkuro's initiative are just 2 options being discussed.

#6

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