also joerg I believe alot of us trust your judgement and you deliver there's no doubt about that...
the world is full of individuals that don't make enough things matter...
don't throw it all away!
Besides, I said I'd donate again remember? where do I send that cash now?
@others, don't answer that!
So keep going hmmm joerg
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~ 1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x 3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x
But i think that QtWebKit will be only for AmyCygnix => owb still will won.
AmiCygnix will add some rendering overhead, but except for scrolling it shouldn't be noticable since layout, javascript, etc., needs most CPU time, rendering the final results into the window needs next to none. Unlike OWB it's still developped and with something like Arora you'd get a web browser for computers and not just a very limited cell phone/settop box browser like OWB.
@Slayer Quote:
Besides, I said I'd donate again remember? where do I send that cash now?
To someone porting a web browser to AmigaOS, for example the Friedens for Timberwolf.
but the Fab version is a great and complete browser,
His version doesn't even have an usable GUI but uses some MUI crap instead
Quote:
the problem is not OWB itself.
I guess you already forgot what OWB actually is. Andrea's old SDL build of OWB is still on os4depot and you should check it again. There is nothing missing in it. Anything more than that (except for using newer OWB revisions, which was stopped 2-3 months ago), for example a GUI or support for multple windows/tabs, doesn't exist in OWB itself but was only implemented in the AmigaOS 4.x port.
Well you can call it as you like, but MUI is a toolkit to create GUIs as Reaction or what you use for your OWB port, maybe you don't like it and I can understand your point of view, but things doesn't changes too mutch.
For example I don't like Microsoft Windows, but I never say that Windows isn't an OS etc ...
But turning on OWB now i'm curious to know what you intend for a GUI, because maybe our ideas are very different.
- For me a decent UI of a browser must have almost a window that shown download progress + resume (maybe an integrated download manager not dozen of separated windows)
- Multiple window support - A visual preferences window (not crappy tooltypes '80 style) - Graphical Cookie manager - A decent bookmark handling (not a separated window) - A password manager
and so so on ...
Quote:
I guess you already forgot what OWB actually is. Andrea's old SDL build of OWB is still on os4depot and you should check it again
Yes I remember the first Andrea's release altrought at that time I didn't have OS4 at home, but you talking about a 3 years old release, personally after 3 years I would expect mutch more than tabs support ...
If Alfkil gets QtWebKit working without problems and can build Arora with it you'll get a (simple) web browser and using something like OWB instead isn't required any more.
First of all I wouldn't count on me getting QtWebKit to run properly. I'm a lazy no good amateur, and besides I'm starting in school again so my time is going to be limited from now on. (Working on Qt was never intended to be very serious, just for my own pleasure and curiosity.)
Second of all, OWB will always have advantages over QtWebKit: Fast startup time (Qt is a sloow starter because it needs so many shared libraries), size (libQtWekKit.so is over 70 mb), accessability (there is going to be no native qt from me, so we are stuck with amicygnix, which scares many people away) and probably lots of other things.
The Qt Browser at it's current state is just not good enough, and I think I have pretty much reached the level, where further improvement is going to be hard. Sorry.
Yes I remember the first Andrea's release altrought at that time I didn't have OS4 at home, but you talking about a 3 years old release, personally after 3 years I would expect mutch more than tabs support ...
OWB still doesn't support tabs and still has no GUI at all, let alone any of the other features you want, but since it's not a browser for computers but for CE devices such features are not required. It's using a newer version of WebKit, but it hardly has more own features now (the cookie support is much better and a few other things improved, for example it supports JavaScript alerts and select popups now which wasn't the case 3 years ago yet).
Implementing a complete computer web browser around OWB still doesn't make any sense at all, and of course that never was the goal of the AmigaOS 4.x port, no matter how hard you try to keep ignoring such facts. Even if I'd still have working AmigaOS 4.x hardware I never would have wasted my time doing something as stupid as that. If you want a complete web browser you have to use one instead of something like OWB, for example Timberwolf.
Implementing a complete computer web browser around OWB still doesn't make any sense at all,
so the Fab's work is useless?
I respect your point of view, but I really think that the OWB MOS version was REALLY better than nothing! And, related to OS4.x, if Frieden's wasnt working to TimberWolf, we have to stay with owb with minimal gui for the ethernity???
No idea what he did, I don't have MorphOS and the sources of the MorphOS parts aren't on the OWB SVN. But no matter what he did it doesn't make sense since he seems to try to implement a computer web browser around OWB, which is much more work than porting an existing browser like Firefox is, or Chromium if you prefer WebKit, and a single developer can never implement all features of such a browser. And even if anything he did would have made any sense for MorphOS, or at least there wouldn't already have been a WebKit based MorphOS browser (IIRC "Sputnik" or something like that), it would still be useless for AmigaOS.
Quote:
And, related to OS4.x, if Frieden's wasnt working to TimberWolf, we have to stay with owb with minimal gui for the ethernity???
That there will be an AmigaOS 4.x port of Firefox was clear already when I started working on the AmigaOS 4.x port of OWB, it always only was a temporary better-than-nothing solution until the Firefox port is completed. If nobody else would have ported Firefox to AmigaOS I wouldn't have implemented a web browser around OWB either but would of course have ported Firefox to AmigaOS myself instead.
OWB still doesn't support tabs and still has no GUI at all, let alone any of the other features you want, but since it's not a browser for computers but for CE devices such features are not required. It's using a newer version of WebKit, but it hardly has more own features now (the cookie support is much better and a few other things improved, for example it supports JavaScript alerts and select popups now which wasn't the case 3 years ago yet).
I know, OWB taked as is it's just a core but also WebKit taked stand alone is a core, there's not all that difference between the two, infact the Sand-Labs guys import most of the code directly from the day to day WebKit development
But this is not the point, if we taked this point of view as a dogma there will be any sense to develop anythings, just port complete software from other platform and stay in peace, but the story are different, the majority of the software are developed from scratch or even adapted to the reference platform, they are not ported as is.
Quote:
Implementing a complete computer web browser around OWB still doesn't make any sense at all, and of course that never was the goal of the AmigaOS 4.x port, no matter how hard you try to keep ignoring such facts. Even if I'd still have working AmigaOS 4.x hardware I never would have wasted my time doing something as stupid as that. If you want a complete web browser you have to use one instead of something like OWB, for example Timberwolf.
You don't want, you decide, but you can't call it as useless, expecially when someone (Fab) prove that it is possible to build a complete browser around it
I see it and i navigate with it and i can assure you that it is a fantastic product
You suggest to wait for Firefox, that's ok, but at the moment Firefox is unusable on AmigaOS and most probably it will remain unusable for months, also you may consider that not all people like it as program, some of them may prefer WebKit over Gecko, having a good alternative would be better for all of us instead to force all users to stay in a single project ...
Aniway, i'm not here to change your POV, do what you want with OWB.
Quote:
No idea what he did, I don't have MorphOS and the sources of the MorphOS parts aren't on the OWB SVN.
Fine, let's say what i do is pointless. I have just one question for you then: why do you bother developing for an OS like OS4 when you could just use linux/osx/windows instead? I can't see any reason, because according to you, it's clearly pointless to try competing against these OSes, so your work just makes no sense at all either.
Now, let's be serious again. This "cellphone browser" outperforms firefox in several areas, including speed and standards compatibility.
Sure, OWB itself is nothing more than a SDL implementation and a simple API over WebKit (cloning WebKit win API, actually), which serves no other purpose than having a very portable but very useless port.
But what really matters is the core itself, WebKit, which, as everyone knows, is used in many mainstream browsers, including Chrome and Safari, and these browsers certainly can't be qualified as "cellphone browsers". Obviously, it needs serious GUI work to be used as a normal desktop browser with standard functionality, but this part is not an impossible task to achieve, even for a single developer.
Edited by Fab on 2010/9/1 1:05:00 Edited by Fab on 2010/9/1 3:18:51
Seeing what Fab has done whit the browser, I can only say it?s totally possible to make this full featured desktop browser whit a proper download manager.
(NutsAboutAmiga)
Basilisk II for AmigaOS4 AmigaInputAnywhere Excalibur and other tools and apps.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the way you are putting yours across is not doing anyone an favours.
Please consider your replies more carefully before contributing to this thread any more.
Replied also via PM.
Simon
Comments made in any post are personal opinion, and are in no-way representative of any commercial entity unless specifically stated as such. ---- http://codebench.co.uk
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