Amiga History: Cloanto promised OS4 software?

While reading Free Amiga history
http://sites.google.com/site/freeamiga/

It has come to my eye that Cloanto DID promised Personal paint and some special edit of Amiga Forever (at least KS files etc. that would make backward compability official and legal)

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B ... zktMTQwY2ZiNzU2MmI4&hl=en

Do you believe that any kind of petition by OS 4 users to have such would be helpful?

Would anyone anymore be interested in it?

Has Cloanto declared any further info ever?

@vox
I remember promises to port PPaint, Dopus Magellan and SuperBase. Unless there is a dramatic increase in the OS4 userbase, it seems unlikely that any of those promises will be kept.
An 8bit (256 color) paint program isn't going to be all that useful now that most images are 24 or 32 bit; including the OS4 icons. PPaint would probably need a serious update to be really useful for OS4. The Amiga market is now so splintered (OS4, MOS, AROS, OS3, UAE etc) that no one segment has the purchasing power to justify a large commercial programming effort.

@xenic

I suppose a bit of touch would be at least 24-bit support. What else was kind a rumored or officially promised back at AmigaInc young days?

I believe even some Real 3D port, and one more paint sw
http://www.intuitionbase.com/ossoftware.php?category=2&letter=ALL

Interesting, Real3D and Gorky 17 seems to be promised by Hyperion, and I hope that at least they will keep their word after OS 4.x SAM and X1000 versions.

Bst pro software seems to be Page Stream, which is again beta with no final realise date.

Maybe X1000 and SAM460 could improve the OS4 userbase, enabling some of this happening? Or OO for Kids
and Timberwolf is the max we can hope for?

Old but nice FAQ is avail here
http://www.pcguru.plus.com/amigaos4_faq.html

@xenic

"The Amiga market is now so splintered (OS4, MOS, AROS, OS3, UAE etc) that no one segment has the purchasing power to justify a large commercial programming effort."

True, but OS4 and MOS are most advanced of them, bearing only problems of PPC being a bit dead ended and left without much software developers. However, it was the path from the beginning and as long PPC h/w is avail, software remains the problem.

Would just like to see more then 68k s/w working ...

Its good e.g. ImageFX or Alladin is working, but it seems transition to PPC took so long that software houses are lost: OS4 is nice updated, feature rich beyond it was first foreseen and is it in development. However, whomever of the existing Amiga related software companies I have contacted, they do not plan any OS4 releases.

Maybe having a clear list of how many OS4 users are and what software they demand / are willing to prepay in the petition type style instead individual letters (or bounty) could prove "one project at the time" viable.

One game and one finished heavyweight App (e.g. one of we mention as promises) would do the magic.

Hyperion could do more on
a) making agreement with Cloanto to integrate Kickstart files and E-UAE making backward compatibilty full and out of box. Petunia is great, but either AGA+CIA emul layer or EUAE is needed for most of apps.
b) Making its own PPC games work (Shogo, Freespace)
out of box with update. Could generate some revenue to them also. As far as I see, only for Quake2 they did it.

@xenic

Ppaint works where well under AmigaOS4, you just need to get settings right.

I love to see fixed version of Ppaint, its maybe not true color paint program but where use full for making cartoon like animations, and other less complicated art work.

@vox
Quote:

Why would they need to do that? Doesn't the settlement with AInc give them the right to use the kickstart files and sell them?

Maybe they can agree with Cloanto for them to sell a bundle of 68k software to run under UAE in AOS4. Or bundles: a productivity one (like wp, spreadsheet, database, etc), graphics, games bundles, etc.

@emeck

I agree, it would be nice with an out of the box OS 3.1 workbench on
OS 4.1.

I wonder if there'll be another major OS release for OS 4.x, or if we've
seen the last.

@Kotler

Quote:

Why not? With the upcoming release of the SAM460 and X1000 we surely get new drivers and, I imagine, bug fixes. Maybe some new features also for all previous machines (A1s, PEGs and SAMs).

@emeck

Well I for one would hope that Hyperion continue improving OS/Workbench adding new features and bundle third-party applications as much as possible or integrate/re-write them ie. Filer.

In fact know we know the hardware of the X1000 I would bloody love to hear from Hyperion itself to find out what they have in store for us.

@vox

I so miss Dopus Magellan for OS4!
What happened to it?!? Guru Meditation should have it but it seems they just buried it which is so sad ((

DOpsu4 is sooo tiresome with its limit of only two listers. Yea, I tried Filer but it's just not there, being in the way all over WB, not having a button bar and no global hotkeys that doesn't require a qualifier.

I want a good full screen file manager and DOpus is the only program that can do it for me.

@emeck

No, agreement mentiones only OS 4.x and beyond, KS files are not mentioned. And as much as we tried, in copyright mambo-jumbo (seen in Free Amiga page) Cloanto is only one legally selling them, as well as OS 3.x disks and some productivity software.

Next OS 4.x realise could be on DVD anyway, and would be nice to see inclusion at least some old productivity software bundled, as well as chipset/KS emulation when needed, out of box. With Glue UAE and other stuff, does not seems so unreachable and I believe 460 board and X1000 could easily emulate A1200/CD32+

Even without Cloanto/EUAE, Petunia is already there, just needed to emulate the chipset somehow

I hope 4.1.2 is not the last realise: when 460 looks the light of the day, it might use the same OS with add on drivers (as every OS 4.1 install was, not one CD for all) but X1000 defenetely needs improved OS. And I hope some of the improvements will be for all, not just X1000 hardware related.

Back to the topic, sadness that no heavyweight apps arrived, and I hope they will have to do something now with mid and high end hardware.

@Deniil

Everybody loves Dopus Magellan (PC versions sucks to it!)
and it seems AmiKit pack OS 3.x emulation is the only one to come with it nowadays

The original promise was 2004
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/ar ... .php?storyid=1810&start=0

Then I remembered Guru Meditation site had some delay info, in lets say 2006, even presale at one point

And then ... the web site (and the company) died
http://www.gurumeditation.se/

I wonder what happens to the rights and whatever progress made

In all the legal battles, and now with new hardware coming, Hyperion paid little attention to improving
"real" software situation, with as far as the announcements we have mentioned here - but none materialised, even Page Stream OS4 final.

To be honest, I wonder is it just the "small market" (but even there couple hundred licences sold would be for sure, or presale can be done) or unwillingness or unpossibility to give needed boards and OS to the possible developers (never heard of any Acube/AmigaInc/Hyperion bundles)

Another workaround was to get fully loaded PPC Linux and offer productivity there. I once tried matching up Acube and Yellow Dog Linux (YDL claimed they already have EP440 beta version of YDL 6) but it also never materialised, even older versions used to support AmigaOne boards with kernel add on (see Utility Base)

I believe both would be essential (strong Amiga apps, good and fully loaded out of box Linux) and even a requirement: if you pay much for the board and OS, you should not be left without apps. And that is what most of today OS`s missed to do.

I am sure after the new H/W is realised, the software must be issue. I mean, what does it bring to have best possible OS if there are no apps to it, except individual users efforts that are limited?

@Deniil

One last on Dopus:

main page doesn`t work but via Google, you can find the page needed

2006 Dopus magellan info
http://gurumeditation.se/product_info.php?products_id=260

2004 Announcement
http://www.gurumeditation.se/press/magellan.html

Inquiry (seems still to be working - alreday asked)
http://www.gurumeditation.se/contact_us.php

@vox

Quote:

Yes, it is mentioned, as far as I understand the agreement (I consider Kickstart to be part of the OS). From the definitions, item n:

n. "Software" means Amiga OS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including without limitation its Software Architecture as described in the Documentation) originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994.

And item b of Grants:
"Without prejudice to any Existing License Agreements listed on Exhibit 1, the
Amiga Parties hereby grant Hyperion (at Hyperion's sole expense) an exclusive,
perpetual, worldwide and royalty-free, transferable right and Object Code and
Source Code license to the Software in order to use, develop, modify,
commercialize, distribute and market the Software in any form (including through sublicensing), on any medium (now known or otherwise), through any means (including but not limited to making AmigaOS 4 available to the public via the internet) and for any current or future hardware platform.

So it seems to me, an out of the box AOS 3.1 setup for AOS 4.x as Kotler suggests is ok for Hyperion. For previous versions, that's where Cloanto fits (also for other software that Cloanto includes in Amiga Forever for which they has license).

edit: typos

@djrikki

Workbench surely needs some (a lot?) of work to make it modern. Maybe that is also something they are working right now as part of the MAP? A reworked Workbench or a new one?

I really missed Dopus Magellan when started to use AOS 4.0.

IF zune gets Mui4 compatibility perharps we can have Ambient for OS4

@Fransexy
I think that may be one reason for resistance to MUI4 for OS4... And to be honest I don't want to see Ambient for OS4/AROS. Even if porting Ambient were technically possible (maybe it uses lots of MOS-only features?), it surely defines MOS to many people, and I don't see why OS4 should get it, even if it is open sourced.

And Workbench + Filer seems good enough to me, for the moment.

And anyway, Hyperion need something to work on! They've previously said they'd like a new GUI system (probably using Cairo for cool effect), and that'd presumably be the time to rewrite Workbench.

@emeck Quote:
While it might be OK from a legal point of view, Hyperion might worry about upsetting Cloanto? I don't see why it *should* upset them, but who knows the politics?

I'd certainly love to see OS3.1 & some E-UAE integration solution bundled with OS4. In fact, I'd suggest it'd be a huge selling point for many ex-Amigans.

@vox Quote:
IMHO, Sam440 already emulates an A1200 & CD32 fairly well (at least using RunInUAE). But extra cpu power of a 460 would certainly remove the need for any tweaking or optimisations on a per-game level.

@ChrisH

Quote:

Yes, I thought about that. But Cloanto can provide the previous versions and also their licensed software. Both would benefit I think. The possibility of running old versions of AmigaOS with legal software under UEA in AOS4.x, as you said, it could be a huge selling point for many ex-Amigans now that neww hardware is coming out.