Simple wishlist for next AmigaOS

@kas1e
Quote:
That has NOTHING to do with user-friendly installation, nor even RunInUAE: He mounted a virtual disk with THE SAME NAME as his OS4 partition, before using the installer. Hardly surprising that things did not go as expected.

You can get most installers to do wrong things if you start changing system assignments/volumes/etc to unexpected places. He just happened to be installing RunInUAE at the time.

EDIT: Removed the bulk of my reply, and made it a PM instead.

So I ask you once more: Please EITHER (1) stop mentioning RunInUAE, OR (2) start a thread to discuss RunInUAE vs glUAE. I would prefer "1", but if you simply cannot stop yourself mentioning RunInUAE all the time, then "2" is better than nothing.

@ChrisH

Bad day ?:) (if you want to continue, you can write me PM).

@ChrisH

Quote:

I'm not into the main discussion regarding RunInUAE, conversely i'm 100% happy with it.

But i would to say somethings about OS4, well OK, not the mention the well-know trolls out there (and surely there are many!!), there are many problems on OS4 that it would be nice if we can discuss without hidding our head under the sandier

This remind me the old discussion about OWB when most "red" amigans refuse to admit the reality ...

Aniway ...

@djrikki

Quote:

+1

@Fairdinkem

Quote:


Just to avoid any confusion, HTML5 video isn't slow, Cairo is (at least with a software surface).

OWB (MorphOS) uses an overlay output in "fullscreen" mode, and when enabled, it runs just as fast and smoothly as MPlayer (youtube 360p typically requires 30% cpu on a pegasos2 in OWB). When overlay is not enabled, all the time is spent in cairo blitting and frameskip happens if needed, but audio is unaffected, though. Video/audio synchronous, as long as you don't try to play some 720p H264 file (you'd need a mac mini to handle this at proper speed and in sync).

Quote:

Chris c'mon now..'personal attack' is a bit over the top & comparing kas1e to the trolls at aw.net is just foolish on your part......so there are 2 great programs that integrate 68k seamlessly into OS4.1 & some people prefer one over the other..period.

FWIW, I tried the latest release of RunInUAE and it works along side glUAE so OS4 fans can use both if they so choose

also, when threads come up at amiga.org or other sites (EAB/ lemonamiga.com etc.) about people not truly knowing that an option exists I always point out both glUAE and RunInUAE as options...I even pointed this out to DAX over at amiga.org recently

@328gts
As you know I have been mentioning RunInUAE because that is what I use and have experience with, when you mention these integration software on AW or Amiga.org, you may receive questions from unsuspecting users and I don't want to be cought off guard on programs I never used (however you should have noticed that after your remarks I now mention Gluae too).

Anyway it is unfortunate that two of my favorite developers end up (heatingly) discussing about these two fine integration solutions.

Trying to be constructive, we should first admit that if a major improvement is needed that has probably nothing to do with both (as it is E-UAE that should be further improved for starters).

@Kas1e
I know you don't like the idea of third party integration efforts (and would prefer hyperion to do it) but don't try to pull weird case scenarios as expamples that corroborate your idea that they are dangerous.
I'm quite a noob Aos wise and all I had to do with RunInUAE (again i only speak of it because I have experience with it) is insert my Amiga ForEver disk, and answer a few question and "ta da!" everything worked like a charm from the get-go, and that's for an (almost)AmigaOS impaired noob like myself.
I'm sure Gluae is great too, and that both can receive further updates to complete the picture.

@DAX
:) If that make so big sense for CrhisH to protect his program (holly-smoly, its just a programm), then lets be as he wish , with all that highlighting 1,2,3 stuff :) Lets avoid that place to be as AW.

Back to topic:

What i really wish , its somekind of "progress bar indicator" for aos4 developming, which users can check on some site, and know on which for now work is going, what we can expect soon or later, and in what priorities have all the parts which in developming. That imho will pretty reduce all that questions and waiting about knowing simply thinks for users. That also can be good marketing step, for hold current customers and attract new ones.

@kas1e

OK, afer surviving the UAE wars
we have come to 13/13/13 points.

I agree that this is just user wish list, and would be our idea of roadmap. Its plenty ideas Hyperion could fulfill step by step, lets say, by OS 5.0 even adding some of their new. They are probably aware of most of it, but are they of all of it? I am still in for adding some more ideas and having it posted to Hyperion. We can always compare "what is done" to "what we wanted" (e.g. which points have improved) and where they had ideas over the user list,
so there is no evil in it. Somehow for me, it constitutes "OS 5.0 feature list" - OS 4.x is giant step forward, but this is the way we want it to be improved

HIGH PRIORITY (13 points)

1. drivers : especially USB 2.0, drivers for new and faster ATI with full 3D support and a new range of supported wifi cards.

2.much better openGL support; improved 3D performance Hardware OpenGL support for Radeon cards (e.g. using MESA, Gallium 3D) but NOT slow as it is

3. Stable USB 2.0 device support

4.memory protection -- this above all else! Better memory protection, like enforced MEMF_PRIVATE flag (or a new such flag) would be very welcome too.

5.classic environment ready to run out-of-the-box, since Hyperion has acquired kick roms and OS
Glue U-UAE with KS 1.3 and KS 3.1/CD32 for full OS 3.x compatibility built in / bundle RunInUAE OR something easy and simple as AmigaForever and Amikit

6.an OS4 website, including links to popular apps

7. a well-written manual 1. an OS4 website, including links to popular apps
a well-written manual

8. transition to a more modern printing backend to support newer printers/scanners; more intuitive printer setup utility, USB Scanner and Laser printer drivers (HP, Cannon)

9. support for NTFS (and ext2, if possible) / Full FAT32 and NTFS read/write support for removable devices and hard drives

10. Support for multiple cores or at least dual cores/XMOS support for X1000 owners

11. dual monitor support.

12. Boots off CD and hard drive everytime on all supported systems

13. progress bar indicator" for aos4 developming, which users can check on some site, and know on which for now work is going, what we can expect soon or later, and in what priorities have all the parts which in developming. That imho will pretty reduce all that questions and waiting about knowing simply thinks for users. That also can be good marketing step, for hold current customers and attract new ones.

APPS,GUI, TWEAKS (13 POINTS)

01.rework preferences (consolidate, remove, focus on UI, etc.)

02. A prefs center
http://os4depot.net/filedata/snapshot/6003_2_snap.jpg

http://os4depot.net/index.php?functio ... workbench/prefscenter.lha

03. will be cool to have WB in develop more, will be cool to have prefs organized better, will be cool to have some visual modern effects for amidock when you browse over it , will be cool to have GDB working normally" and so o

04.Granite


http://os4depot.net/index.php?functio ... pshot/display&fileid=5993

Granite... a firewall application just requires a worthy looking GUI.

05. Workbench need to be updated.

Def icons problems:

* s add new filetypes to the DefIcons database.
* It?s hard to configure it, most users don?t understand it.
* Its only possible to have one application per def icon, it?s not where flexible
* It?s is too easy to make mistakes whit the result of broken def icons.

06. WB Improvement:
Workbench has to be replaced with something like Ambient or improved (e.g. dual listing, avi priviews etc) Filer and integrate it to the system.

07. more work on ReAction. Speaking of which, are they thinking of creating a multitouch interface - "Touch ReAction" is a nice brand.

08. Prefs are confusing for new users ? make them better organized

09. Choice of default disk and drawer icons or maybe icon sets ...
For example, if I choose OS4.0 look and feel, I would like to see disk and drawer icons like the ones from OS4.0 July 2007 Update.

10. Streamlined prefs with some prefs programs done away with or combined

11. Multi-user system

12. An enhanced trashcan, something like the third party GlobalTrash maybe

13. Some new datatypes and enhanced MultiView, e.g. controls for browsing through drawers of pictures/scaling of images to fit screen, etc.

LESS LIKELY BUT BIG UPDATES WISHLIST (13 POINTS)

01. Fully HW accelerate Cairo and add HW acceleration to gfx.library (where worthwhile)

02.Normal OpenGL, Acceleted and Full supported OpenGL 2 (DirectX if possible)

03. Java

04. Flash
Java and Flash (even free solution like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Jav ... ementations#Class_library
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Scr ... oject#Open_Screen_Project

05.More hardware accelerated and optimized OS for Radeon 9000 and HD, G3,G4,and EP440/460 CPUs

06.MUI4 native to catch up with MOS and improve
MUI look

07.RadeonHD and more GFX cards drivers (NVidia, Matrox)

08.Sound card drivers that support DSP chips and advanced features (ASYNCIO?)

09. For some reason some disk operations take all CPU time

10. New polished look again! And somehow simple and OS 4.0 style

11. Able to use HDMI on the graphics card, fix darker screen when using vga instead of dvi

12. If we had a better Amiga business management system maybe the wish list wouldn't exist

13. Cairo is slow (at least with a software surface).

@vox

There is a GUI for Granite

@samo79

Thanks SAMO, I believe idea was "integrated firewall" but since OS 3.5 tradition went to 3rd party free apps, why not proposing one that works OK to become standard?

This could go for other areas!

@vox

Agree, there are many apps that Hyperion can integrate into the OS by default

I can say Granite off course, but also:

PlayCDDA (instead of the old PlayCD)
FlexCat 2.7
NallePuh
AmiUpdate
PNG icon module
Various libs/datatypes and so on ...

@vox

You have Preferences mentioned in multiple places. One is enough. Also Fab's comment on Cairo was related to MorphOS and not AmigaOS ! Some of your points are already taken care.

@person_who_mentioned_dual_monitor_support
Who mentioned that dual monitor support ? Could you elaborate more ? Do you mean splitting one screen to two monitors (two halfs on each one) ? Or seeing different screens on each monitor ? That's already possible if you have two different kinds of gfx cards (one agp and one pci f.ex.).

(Edit)

@TSK

Thanks, at the end I will optimize the prefs to one, altought it`s a bit different approach to same issue.

I will not fall back, at least one person mentioned dual monitor support. As far as I know, integrated SAM had option to use both integrated GFX and PCI slot card and that was it.

Usually it means twining (same display on two monitors) while advanced possibilities are spliting the screen, defining which screen / windows goes to which display ... Person DID not mentioned it.

Also, if you have idea which apps could become default (or change some old WB tools), its also most welcome. Its a bit nice summ up, any additions are welcome.

Maybe some programming tools or editors?
Better Hardware and Software development documentation? SDK as part of OS?

@samo79

Yeah I mentioned earlier in the thread that the GUI could do with a new column at the beginning showing an icon against each running applicaiton.

@vox

Hmm, how about IPv6 support?

Chris

@Chris

13/13/13 wishes

Kindly beginng SUPREME COUNCIL to present it / send it to Hyperion as "wishlist roadmap" in front of Amigans.net, as I believe its better then sending it as individual

And yes, add some of their ideas

--------------


I agree that this is just user wish list, and would be our idea of roadmap. Its plenty ideas Hyperion could fulfill step by step, lets say, by OS 5.0 even adding some of their new. They are probably aware of most of it, but are they of all of it? I am still in for adding some more ideas and having it posted to Hyperion. We can always compare "what is done" to "what we wanted" (e.g. which points have improved) and where they had ideas over the user list,
so there is no evil in it. Somehow for me, it constitutes "OS 5.0 feature list" - OS 4.x is giant step forward, but this is the way we want it to be improved

HIGH PRIORITY (13 points)

1. drivers : especially USB 2.0, drivers for new and faster ATI with full 3D support and a new range of supported wifi cards.

2.much better openGL support; improved 3D performance Hardware OpenGL support for Radeon cards (e.g. using MESA, Gallium 3D) but NOT slow as it is

3. Stable USB 2.0 device support

4.memory protection -- this above all else! Better memory protection, like enforced MEMF_PRIVATE flag (or a new such flag) would be very welcome too.

5.classic environment ready to run out-of-the-box, since Hyperion has acquired kick roms and OS
Glue U-UAE with KS 1.3 and KS 3.1/CD32 for full OS 3.x compatibility built in / bundle RunInUAE OR something easy and simple as AmigaForever and Amikit

6.an OS4 website, including links to popular apps

7. a well-written manual 1. an OS4 website, including links to popular apps
a well-written manual

8. transition to a more modern printing backend to support newer printers/scanners; more intuitive printer setup utility, USB Scanner and Laser printer drivers (HP, Cannon, All in One printers)

9. support for NTFS (and ext2, if possible) / Full FAT32 and NTFS read/write support for removable devices and hard drives

10. Support for multiple cores or at least dual cores/XMOS support for X1000 owners

11. dual monitor support ? twining, making selectable windows and screens displayed at different monitors

12. Boots off CD and hard drive everytime on all supported systems

13. progress bar indicator" for aos4 developming, which users can check on some site, and know on which for now work is going, what we can expect soon or later, and in what priorities have all the parts which in developming. That imho will pretty reduce all that questions and waiting about knowing simply thinks for users. That also can be good marketing step, for hold current customers and attract new ones.
(Something like http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/status/everything.php )

APPS,GUI, TWEAKS (13 POINTS)

01.rework preferences (consolidate, remove, focus on UI, etc.)

02. A prefs center, Prefs are confusing for new users ? make them better organized
Streamlined prefs with some prefs programs done away with or combined

03. will be cool to have WB in develop more, will be cool to have prefs organized better, will be cool to have some visual modern effects for amidock when you browse over it , will be cool to have GDB working normally"

04. Good 3rd party apps that could go standard:

Firewall: Granite
CD player: PlayCDDA (instead of the old PlayCD)
Locale Maker: FlexCat 2.7
Paula emulator: NallePuh
Updater: AmiUpdate
PNG icon module
Various libs/datatypes and so on ...

05. Workbench need to be updated.

Def icons problems:

* s add new filetypes to the DefIcons database.
* It?s hard to configure it, most users don?t understand it.
* Its only possible to have one application per def icon, it?s not where flexible
* It?s is too easy to make mistakes whit the result of broken def icons.

06. WB Improvement:
Workbench has to be replaced with something like Ambient or improved (e.g. dual listing, avi priviews etc) Filer and integrate it to the system.

07. more work on ReAction

08. Choice of default disk and drawer icons or maybe icon sets ...
For example, if I choose OS4.0 look and feel, I would like to see disk and drawer icons like the ones from OS4.0 July 2007 Update.

09. Multi-user system

10. An enhanced trashcan, something like the third party GlobalTrash maybe

11. Some new datatypes and enhanced MultiView, e.g. controls for browsing through drawers of pictures/scaling of images to fit screen, etc.

12. multitouch interface - "Touch ReAction" is a nice brand (as was already presented
On a mobile phone and with SAM EP440)

13. Filemanager Dopus Magellan (even OS3 emulated, what happened to GuruMeditation port?) integrated or multiple listers (tabs) and maybe some programming interfrace like AVD template and SDK / programming guide to OS4 to boost devlopment

LESS LIKELY BUT BIG UPDATES WISHLIST (13 POINTS)

01. Fully HW accelerate Cairo and add HW acceleration to gfx.library (where worthwhile)

02.Normal OpenGL, Acceleted and Full supported OpenGL 2 (DirectX if possible)

03. Java
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Jav ... ementations#Class_library

04. Flash
even free solution like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Scr ... oject#Open_Screen_Project

05.More hardware accelerated and optimized OS for Radeon 9000 and HD, G3,G4,and EP440/460 CPUs

06.MUI4 native to catch up with MOS and improve
MUI look

07.RadeonHD and more GFX cards drivers (NVidia, Matrox)

08.Sound card drivers that support DSP chips and advanced features (ASYNCIO?)

09. Bugfix: For some reason some disk operations take all CPU time

10. New polished look again! And somehow simple and OS 4.0 style

11. Able to use HDMI on the graphics card, fix darker screen when using vga instead of dvi

12. If we had a better Amiga business management system maybe the wish list wouldn't exist

13. Wi-Fi support, maybe IPv6 support?

13. modern database tools

@328gts Quote:
Sounds good to me! Use each solution for what it does best.

Quote:
I did not say that: I was quoting kas1e, who said him doing something COULD be interpreted as a personal attack. My point was that what he was *already* doing could have the same interpretion (and was potentially worse).

@kas1e Quote:
Nope. I explained exactly why I felt like I did... And your (again) attempting to downplay my feelings (and/or brush it under the table) does NOT help resolve matters.

Quote:
After I made that last post, I realised it should have (mostly) been a PM. As a sign of good faith, I am editing my previous post, and deleting most of it.

I will send the original post to you as a PM, and await your response...

@vox Quote:
Hyperion won't do that, because it gives too much information to their "competition". They didn't even seem to like it (although I'm not entirely sure) when I collated their Update 1 & 2 plans (discussed at various Amiga conventions) into an "OS4 roadmap" post.

Most likely, I think they will only announce stuff when it is already (or nearly) done.