Why still no revival of Hyperion's "Welcome to AmigaOS4.0" site?

I think people have asked this question before, so this is really just raising this un-answered subject again (and also a useful bookmark for some handy links) :


Hyperion used to have a great little site at os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz, which explained some of the cool things about AmigaOS4.0 . But it disappeared at around the time of the legal battle with Amiga Inc, and it seems to have never been revived, despite the massive need for it. Here's a snapshot (sadly without any images) of the site that is still available:

os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz on 12-Aug-2008 (fast using the beta Archive.org)
os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz on 22-Aug-2008 (SLOW using the classic Archive.org)

Recently www.amigaos.net has filled this gap somewhat, but it still seems a puzzle Hyperion has no official web site about AmigaOS4. They could just take the old site, search & replace "4.0" with "4.1", and bobs your uncle!

You know the answer as well as we know it too :) : no resources, no priority, soon, 2 more weeks, when its done, not now, better to spend time on xxxx, will be done when there will be real need and so on.

@kas1e
I would have thought it would take about 10 minutes to get it up & running again (just copy archive to the right server folder, search & replace 4.0 with 4.1, then test it looks works), so I really don't see how "no resources" & similar can apply...

And how can selling OS4 not be a "priority"?

@ChrisH
Quote:

Maybe they not want to have the same site, and want to make better one, when time will come. Maybe they just not want to bother about at all for now by any of the reassons (+ answers from post #2)

For me, as for user, having good and professional site about OS4 done by company which make it (even something like morphos-team have), and works close with potential users are should be 100% top priority for Hyperion, but *all the answers from post#2*.

Quote:

Simply as that :) As i understand, for now Hyperion not worring about attracting of new blood, and there is no any kind of PR managment in that way. Maybe that is logical, because for now OS4 not ready for new-blood users for sure:

-- opengl in progress and when stable/fast opengl will be done we do not know, but of course, any fresh user want normal opengl (that are must).

-- default shell will scare any new user 100% (and answers like go and install kcon, are bad and wrong way to attract new-user). Sure, its all in works (for last 4 years) on new shell, but we all know all the stuff.

-- usb2.0 : with usb1 , none from new-blood will in interest (very slow for any fresh user).

-- printing

-- primitive WB (even Filer not integrated, but for me it also sounds as more or less easy and fast job).

And so on.

And for me, sounds pretty logical, that still many years will be passed, while thinks will be changed to the way of attracting new blood, worring about sites for OS.

A bit pessimistic, but well .. that reality.

I also do one more time recheck of that old aos4 site, and well .. site should be better as well. So maybe indeed they want to make better one, when time will come. For now it just will not make big sense imho.

They will go for AmigaOS 4.2 probably.

@kas1e
One answer you didn't suggest (at least not directly) was that they are waiting until X1000 for big advertising push... Well, we can hope!

... and wait

@kas1e Quote:
I should say that that I don't agree with such reasoning. Yes, sure, Hyperion should not try to sell AmigaOS4 to the wider world before it is ready for them. But on the other hand it should not turn-away people that already heard about it (and possibly loosing them to MOS or AROS), simply because they could not be bothered to spend 10 minutes (*) to put-up a few simple web pages to tell people about OS4.

(* = while I may be slightly underestimating the necessary time, I cannot see any reason why it should take more than 1 hour for even the most unsuitable & poorly designed server.)

@ChrisH
Not sure that all our "we agree / we don't agree" will make any sense for Hyperion. They do what they want to do, and looks like for now , for them, not important and not priority to worring with site about os4.

Sure, its all fast and easy, but someone should to do that job. As i see, they not have any full-time payed web-designer / web-developer, and they do all their sites byself. What mean, that for making good looking aos4 related site, brothers should stop to works on important parts of OS , and start to worring about site. Even if it will get only 1-2 days, its still time, swithing of working context, redirect mind to other side and so on.

Of course, one can say: why then not ask any web-designer to make good sites for , and pay for the work, and answers: no free money / no priority / no time. Because more or less normal site will cost 300-1000$ minimum, but they can do it byself. Good site and very professional can cost few thousands and more, so sure no one want to pay for.

"Company" its just a words. And everyone draw in mind a picture, like somethere are big house, with 1000 workers, who works all the time, call on phones, secretary everythere, the big-business-plans are in making, etc. Everything not like that for sure in case with Hyperion. Its just mailing lists for developers + some small office where ben and brothers works :) I am even not understand from where they get money to be alive still.

As i see from the classic release info, AmiKit was funding the release of classic version. I do not know what did it mean, and how much, but its cleary that Hyperion itself not have tons of money , for paying all the workers, get new one, and pay for web-designers who will do good, professional sites (and , all the time monitor it and update). Its all money.

Of course, with better PR , with all the sites, OS4 will solds better (i am sure here as well), and they will have more users, more money. I am also sure, that with fast updates (1 time in 6 month minumim, and does not matter what happens and how much changes was done) , more users will be here, and more copies of os4 will be sold. I also think that if they will release "moana" version for macintoshes (and not spend all their time on x1000), that also can be much better way (because all that investition to x1000, which are about 200-300 thousands, can play big, really big role in the fast developing of os4).

But its only me think like this. You think different. Hyperion think different as well. And while we can ask why there is no site, and why there Filer not integrated to WB normally, and why there is mess with prefs, why there is no usb2, no shell, etc, etc. Hyperion can't do anything with that, that because of answers from post#2.

We can speculate about better organisation, about why and what, if , else , but you already know everything when you create a topic :) Its all for sure so understanable for everyone already, that only you and me write in this topic, because it make no sense at all :)

@kas1e Quote:
That didn't stop you from reply though!

My only hope is that by discussing important issues about OS4, that someone inside (or related to) Hyperion will think about these issues too, and maybe even do something about it... Stranger things have happened

Quote:
I know that (& understand why) one or both Friedens are responsible for (at least some of) the web server (& perhaps even web site design). Which is why I said they should *re-use* the existing "Welcome to OS4.0" web pages. That means it is only a "10 minute" job, rather than a 2+ day job.

I'm not really sure there is any merit in discussing such things. Nothing anyone can say here is new or revolutionary, so unless it's just a way to pester into a result, you are (IMO) simply passing time.

Decisions on business matters will be made by those in a position to make those decisions. While such decisions may be altered by public opinions, unless something astounding comes of it, it's unlikey to sway any judgement.

While you are free to continue, let's just be clear that you are not likely to achieve anything by it.e

Simon

Some factions are always willing to discuss anything and everything instead of enjoying the moment... It is as if they aren't looking for the next door worth opening or to the horizon trying to predict the next move nothing productive or insightful is happening... or worse, they aren't an active member of a forum! God Forbid heh

It reminds me of a bloke I had little time for at work whos sole function in life just seemed to be to exist and to 'ask the question' in his own words... yet the man never had a personal opinion on anything, always said, I don't know what the answer is but I know its not that...

But yes, I'm a very firm believer in allowing whatever to occur or unflold by those whos choices are the only ones who can make those choices... It doesn't matter if something goes astray... it's there right to try and fall short...

The world is hell bent on helping the stupid, but does this actually help humanity? It would be faster to help kill the stupid and purify the human race quicker of this lacking DNA... LOL

If you don't want to sit by the way side then start something yourself not poke people in the eye trying to motivate them with your personal ideal or preference about something you've decided to shine light on... lol

I'd rather see threads of people enjoying there Amigas and Threads of people sharing info... and not worry about things that aren't in our hands...

You want to promote the Amiga, then just talk about it... if you want to give it more exposure, talk about it outside the forums...

I never promote the Amiga I only give my opinion when computers come up in usual conversion... generally, the rest takes care of itself if you get my meaning...

I don't mean to offend anyone I just have some fairly strict ideals that much of the world could benefit by just adopting a few heh

Yes, one day I may write that book but to tell you the truth, I'd rather push the button and start again... not until twenty years though so we can enjoy our X1000s a time

@rigo Quote:
Not intended to "pester". You may be right there is nothing new here, but us customers outside of Hyperion have *no* idea what goes on inside Hyperion. (For us) To assume we do (know) would be the height of arrogance.

We can hope for the best, but it can help to consider the worst too. The worst case is that Hyperion has too few people to do everything, and that in their rush to do "important things A,B & C", they consequently forget to do "important thing D". Or maybe they didn't forget "D", but they stopped thinking about the bigger picture, and so "D" ended-up being treated at a lower priority than it should. (Or things may be fine, "D" may be given the correct priority & we just lack info to realise this.)

Given that us outsiders have NO idea what the truth is, there seems absolutely no harm in discussing it:
* The worst that happens (and most likely) is that we are just "passing time".
* Better would be that someone explains why "D" is probably not being done.
* Better still would be that Hyperion explains why "D" is not being done. (Notice that my first question was WHY is it not being done.)
* The best (but least likely) situation is that someone in Hyperion sees our discussions, realises that something has been temporarily overlooked, and then does something about it.

@Slayer Quote:
You are right to a certain degree. But I am ALSO a firm believer that if I see something wrong, then I should say so, just in case no-one else (capable of fixing it) has seen the problem.

Or would you see a car accident, and walk on by without doing anything, because it's up to those in the car to make their choices? (Never mind that they may be unable to call for help.) Sadly many people WOULD walk on by (or just watch without doing anything), and assume someone else will have dealt with it (but if everyone did this...).

@ChrisH
Sure you right. I just think hyperion already know all of this. I also in surprise for example, why tonyw can't update hyperion blog by article about shell, about which he say 3 months ago. Or why no-one else make this for him if he can't/have no time ? For me it also few hours of work maximum, but still, that not done, because of any reassons.

Imho better just not bother about. Let's hyperion do what they want, and works as they want, and we as users, will just see what happens after 2-3 years.

OS4 will never ever be sold to a wider audience. The same applies to MorphOS and AROS. These are niche and hobby OSes. We may hope that some day will expand their features to serve us better and have a good/great time when using them. However, the gap between modern OSes and AmigaOS (plus Amiga-like OSes) gets wider each day that passes by. Two days ago, I got my hands on a X10 Xperia Mini, it performed faster, better, had more apps and offered a way more richfull experience than all of the above OSes combined. And that was a comparison between Sam440ep/OS4.1.2 + MacG4/MOS2.7 + Dual Core/AROS vs a shitty 110 Euro Smartphone.

@Cool_amigaN
I think they have ideas how attract more users, even if all not cheap and in general have no real benefits in compare. Maybe year by year OS will grow, and more users will attracted, and at some stage thinks will going faster and better. But sure, its all "let's hope" :)

For what its worth here's my two pennies worth.

Even if the OS isn't where we want it to be, a nice site promoting AmigaOS4 wouldn't hurt.
Lets face it, none of us are getting any younger. If we don't get new blood interested, the Amiga will die out cos all the users will die out of old age.

Just my humble opinion.

Well, that's a sad thought. Perhaps the key of Amigas' continuation is hidden inside the elixirium then :)

Still, if by "new blood" you mean young people as well (>25 of age), then it is a totally unrealistic goal imho. Certain ages, look after being on the hype of technology. Stuff that goes on currently on Android, Win7, Linux, Apple, x86 Quad Cores, >6GB of Ram, HD gaming, Pixel Perfect webpages, CSS 3.0, SLI, Smartphones, Kinetic devices etc.

And honestly, I am 100% with them. Remember how proud all were for the awesome blitter, copper, Superfrog, OCS, ECS and many other cool factors and bleeding edge stuff that we had?

Now, if "new blood" means attracking computer enthusiasts, then AmigaOS might stand a chance if the entry price is reduced more than 60-70%. 460ex is cool by costs 10 times more than the shitty smartphone that outperformed it in terms of usability, apps etc. Even a second hand 440ep/flex will cost 5-6 times more than X10. The X1000 is aimed at hardcore amigans (given the price). As I observe, Mac port of MorphOS (because it has been discussed as a solution for OS4.x as well), didn't help them to boost their market pool. Most registrations were done by MOS active users that moved on cheaper and more powerfull machines than Efika and PegII. Same people that posted and asked/offer help on various fora, still post. Extremely few newcomers unfortunately.

Perhaps, imho, a port of OS4.x on a mobile, low end (but still faster than what we have), ultra cheap, device (from tablet to smartphone and from netbook to laptop) is a step that Hyperion should consider from a business pov.

Then make the webpage :)

@Cool_amigaN

They can try to go by the route of "we are different" (like do mac back in the days, while mac software was sucky enough, still, tons of fanboys was present. So imho going by this route can help a bit). Of course not the same 1:1, but kind of (because ppls will always follow to stickers and will found in anything good sides when they will want).

Of course its unreal to set now level of "attract all the 20-25 years old users to amigas". Of course noone will do it in clear mind, expectually in current form. But its the same unreal as sold PPC hw today, and still, Acube sold it somehow and alive.

The same possible to found some areas where hyperion can sign contracts and sold amigaos special for. Just like was QNX in sold back in years, or any other kind of OS about no one know. That is all politic, and you can sold any piece of #OOPS# if you good politic-manager and can sold the stuff.

They can write just one small app which will be necessary for someone, and then sold it with amigaos, and step by step. If they want to make some money, they will found a ways for sure.

For me, attracting of new blood its 100% priority in next 3 years, because if not , then everything will die, or will just stack on the 500 users barier. And because of it sites and so on are must as well, but its only we think like that. Hyperion have their own vision and decissions.

Sure prices for HW should be down , or macintosh ports should be happens (i for example heard different : macos ports attract some new users to morphos as well). Because buying HW which are cost 5-10 times higher , with OS which 5-10 times worse (in compare with any new user who never use amigaos before) , its of course hard to attract any new users.

If amigaos user base will be only we (who are over 30 years old and more, with femalys and all the stuff which busy everyone to even make something which can be done in 2 days by yang-without-femaly person), then its way to final death. But in current form amigaos have potential. if only :)

Quote:

The way I see it.

Pretty much all depends on X1000 and what comes with it. It can either become
THE computer enthusiast dream machine, or just another vehicle for a great OS.

I am saying computer enthusiast because even though other devices and systems
may offer more initial bang for the buck, they are not suited to 'computing'.
Especially young people, interested in computing, could be enticed to Amiga.
Not the ones that download something from an 'app' store and think the are
computer savvy, but the the ones that will envision the future, and the ones
that want to tag along for the ride.

The software will come. Not because there is demand for millions of copies, but
rather because the people using the system have and show great appreciation for
the hard work, ingenuity, and creativity of the programmers both pro and amateur.
Everyone can make a contribution either by developing or simply using/testing
others work.

Anyway, that's how I see it. Windows, A BOX with an OS. Linux, a BOX with a OS.
Mac, a BOX with a OS. We, and I am talking about the equipment, the OS, and the
community, can be of great value. It's up to those who can make Amiga mean
something special in this 'me too' world. I'll take the chance on X1000, A-eon,
Hyperion, and all those in the project, , , including us.

As for a OS4 site......it will happen......it has to, and they know it.