Constructive criticism of Hyperion

@Hans @kas1e

This is discussion how Hyperion handle their own news,
in small OS4 centric forum of people that do care about OS4, where I do count myself. However, if it deteriorate the thread, I can move it to free for all.

Publicly ashaming someone? Well, it was done many times by such "no communication" (nuff said) approach even in Hyperion official forums. Its a stance "you are not beta tester/developer you are not entitled to ask". Also, game where questions are tossed to other company (Trevor sais its Hyperion thing when we will have OS 4.2 and SMP, Steven sais Hyperion is not supposed to do SAM drivers but Acube and so on and so on) is really getting silly.

You are good example of two way street. In my eyes Hyperion must improve.

Continuation of discussion started here
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum ... t_id=83144#forumpost83144

Here, Steven sais "Chicken and egg". I agree with kas, we have enough chickens, focus on eggs

>** To balance this out, many people have been very >supportive of the Radeon HD project, and have understood >that it has taken a mammoth effort just to get this far. >Those with overly negative views just tend to be much >louder.

And so will always be. Someone will not be satisfied with news. I am very satisfied, and willing to bounty support any Hyperion work, if they need money to hire someone. Its crucial to speed software side.

But how can we do anything if we are left lurking in the dark?

I understand its very few developers and we must keep em, but as Kas1e says Trevor is great example how to behave and I say Hyperion still makes a great contrast, not a unity.

You see Steven reading all this, but don`t see any real answers. It happens on chat and would even if I went to Amiwest. Thats why I say Steven is great developer, but not suitable for two way street communication.

Quote:
Steven is OS4 team leader, not an employee of Hyperion

@Hans
>Publicly criticising or shaming someone is usually not a >good approach to getting questions answered by them. Plus, >sometimes you also need to accept that the answers that >you >get are not what you wanted to hear (e.g., "not a >priority").

Well, I feel its deserved, and it has to go public to see what real OS4 users think about it. Its only way to ask for a change, personal private communication will be seen in other light or easily ditched.

Its not about the answer, but about communication style. We don`t want to do this, it doesn't bother us, close the door. Like worse Serbian administration

Browse through official support. Tell me how many questions were anyhow answered by Hyperion boys or Steven (don`t count beta testers and developers, like you that really do that job well and with knowledge). Try to remember IRC sessions or questions of any kind, how many times they have been passed unto someone else, and not really answered. See intuition IRC logs where people interested ask really good questions, most of them are unanswered, especially those software related.

Funny, in Moo and Amiga.org am considered OS4 fanboy (and we all do) but again, even in the darkest night is some essence of truth - there is a room to improve.

Try to inform us. Don`t be ashamed to go Kickstarter and paypal donations if something is urgent. Why not hiring outside help if needed - its not 3-10 personnas can do everything.

If you can`t really do what people ask (hereby, WarpOS support improvement, games ...) put it on some list once OS 4.2 is done and do it - especially if Hyperion can benefit in generating any sales beside AmigaOS. Its what you already have licenses for its not asking for new 3D shooter.

Steven should draft a master plan we can follow, like MorphOS team did.

>Steven is OS4 team leader, not an employee of Hyperion

And OS4 is non-Hyperion project

It would be about time they employ him and this is really kind of lame excuses "not responsible", "pass it onto another".

@elwood

OK, I accept it, then who should be addressed on issue of communication? Smurfs in Belgium?

For example, you are not frustrated you have to use PCI slots of SAM 460 just to get proper SATA, sound and play 3D games (for those who add 9250) and OS 4.1 and that is NOT a Hyperion responsibility, when asked?

@vox

Quote:

Some information just can be shared, let's say they trying something out, they do not know if it's going to work or not, and they can't deliver on it, how will the community react?

What if they say they think they get something done whit in a date, and some unexpected delays it, and they can reach the deadline?

This is two perfect examples of conditions that will be seen as failures by this community, and just unprofessional set you up for failure, so they do not. So they have learnt something from past experience big deal.

The netbook is good example of something that should not have gone out into the public.

If you want to know more you can sign up as beta tester.

Quote:

Hyperion-entrainment has an agreement whit ACube-Systems, someone has to pay for development of drivers, and between Hyperion-entrainment and ACube-Systems has come to a agreement on this, this is not uncommon that vendors make their own drivers, Intel makes their own drivers, AMD makes their own drivers, Nivida makes their own drivers, and so on.

Is this your problem, that companies make agreements?
Or was it something else?

@vox

So basically, what you're asking for is that Hyperion hire (and pay for) a person who will treat you nice and answer all your questions? That indeed sounds like money well-spent.

Listen, you got to be realistic here. Sure it would be nice if Hyperion handled the info channel in a more professional manner - I'd like that too myself - but 1) you can hardly expect IT geeks to do PR stuff, and 2) there's no money to pay any kind of PR person at the moment. And even if it were, it had better go to the OS development or software bounty support. Doing profesional PR only makes sense when you reach a wider market.

@Vox

I think you're absolutely right - that a better PR strategy would do Hyperion (and the community) good.

@Hondo

What's wrong whit the current PR strategy?

Define how you want it to be.

Probably they want people with MIT degrees, with shiny black suits, dark sunglasses.... oh, hold on, those are the men in black...

@all

we are a small community and i can say to hyperion they are lacking of comunication... The last news on their website is dated March 2013 and this is not the best way for make comunication...
They have to learn from Trevor him is a business man and know how to make people interested in his product and company... A-eon Blog / Facebook / Site / Exposition ...

I know some users who are loosing their interest .. geve info and news will make the user more entusiasts and less troll and email spammer and

Small personal thinks about partnerships:

Is better dont ask to no one because big fish eat small fish... the amiga ng or os situation is better stay in underground. why im thing this:
a)The panorama in Technology is totally changing:
Nvidia and Valve make new console, Nintendo have problems with his last product (wii u), the Arm is becoming a mini personal pc ultra low cost... Pad computers and Pad hardware dominating the market and laptops are loosing their interests...
b)When AmigaOS 5 will born with all the function of a Modern and rock Os (multi processing,Memory Protection, 3d , audio/video Acceleration, Smp, stable and 100% internet browsing)
will start asking for big partnership... Ati, Freescale or why not Richard Branson or some Russian/Cina/Arabian bilioner who belive and wanna invest in the A-eon tecnology and Hyperion Amiga OS

for now is better make the max support to our community try to take inside the old Amiga entusiasts and developers losted in time make our community become more stronger.

@vox

I think Steven is a great communicator when it comes AmigaOS4.1.
Don't forget that it was Steven that spear headed the 'official' www.amigaos.net web site that was much needed for many years!

@tlosm

Don't forget the hyperion blog as a source of information :
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/

@328gts

>I think Steven is a great communicator when it comes >AmigaOS4.1.

Nice. Please show me example in Amiga or official forums or IRC Sessions where he doesnt close the thread or flammes the users that ask question, or avoids most of questions by ask "XYZ"

I think he is great developer and suitable for development team leader (where you should pressure, control and be sarcastic if needed), but Friedens, HyperionMP (whoever is) and Steven aren`t for spokesman and community relations.
It would even be best to stay out and commit to work.

>Don't forget that it was Steven that spear headed the >'official' www.amigaos.net web site that was much needed >for many years!

I am sorry to disappoint you, but AmigaOS 4 website as it is now was developed by DJ Rikki and designed by DJ Nick. There used to be Hyperion AmigaOS4 website before the court case, I loved it, it was cute, but was never restored.

Blog is great, but all comments off (that is two way I speak of) and Support forum is great, but generally you get the community support feeling like here in forums, not Hyperion supported.

In general it doesn`t have to be sexy, fancy, paid person. Just someone that communicates better then Steven who is often censor and way too sarcastic.

Let the man do other more important jobs - nothing against his look, style of humor in presentations and developer skills. He has many qualities I man don`t have. But hey, Mr. Burns giving sarcastic comments, first its like in Simpsons, but 10th time its a bit scary.

>Is this your problem, that companies make agreements?
Or was it something else?

No, I don`t mind any partnerships as long as job gets done. If its not done (and it isn`t for SAM 460,X1000 and might even be for X2000) I don`t care who was supposed to do what. I see that OS doesn`t use hardware as it was supposed to - and we can play ping pong all day with whom to blame.

And that is not even consistant e.g. Hyperion, not A-EON, manages CFE in X1000 and audio driver job was outsourced out of Hyperion and AEON to Lyle and RadeonHD driver to Hans. I don`t mind outsourcing, but who is then responsible? I believe AEON and Hyperion are, since they contracted Hans in this example, even its Hans to be "blamed".

Then as example, I can always ask Hans and he will tell me what is going on, but never AEON/Hyperion. That is very bad and another example what I dislike.

In the end, FINALIZED SOFTWARE BEFORE HARDWARE GOES ON SALE, not other way around. Maybe it was needed to push things forward and made possible, but its better to stay out of announcements and do OS and drivers first. I do hope X2000 will be first A1 fully supported by AmigaOS, breaking bad tradition of every single board from A1 to X1000 coming with kind of beta OS an more to be supported later, which usually drags on for years.

@davebraco

yes i forgot about the blog but i prefer have the news inside the official sites and not only in a blog ... not all users know about it and me for example forget about it too.

Mr Solie is a great person, like Trevor an amiga lover ..
Him is a new candidate to be the new mr Petro.lha :)

I think people need to remember that a lot of individuals help out Hyperion free of charge. Take foreinstance AmigaOS.net this was completely a community effort at no point did anyone get paid. Facebook activity is the same, look at /amigaos its entirely a community effort, well an individual effort (mine), the Amiga Facebook page which brings the best of both(all) worlds together is yet another example of a community contributing towards a common good - a team of 3 of which again I am of one. Often our efforts go unappreciated, but still we soldier on.

@vox

Believe me there are others involved of which my part was/is minimal - it is true I may have spurred Hyperion to take action - ie. give the community an official site, wiki, forum, coordinated Facebook presence etc...

Everyone is slow in Amiga land, e.g.if I was in charge I would have consolidated the Hyperion site into the AmigaOS one already- no need for duplication.

And then there is Twitter...

@Vox
Well, official forums are focused on helping AmigaOS 4 owners. Not third party applications, it's a product support forum not a discussion one. I never saw a thread from someone who needed assistance locked by a moderator without help.

Don't need to explain why the comments are disabled on the blog, it would require a moderator, etc. We are lucky enough to have big community websites such as amiga.org, amigaworld.net and of course amigans.net. So it is better to freely discuss the news there.

By the way, Lyle Hazelwood is an AmigaOS core developer.

If sometimes hardware goes on sales without being finalised, it's maybe because money is needed to fund the missing software parts or it's just took more time than expected.

Moreover, there is no school to train a spokesman to deal with too enthusiastic Amiga fans as we are and to face ugly trolls every day...

@vox

Quote:
I understand your point vox, but I'm afraid that an unpaid enthusiast is out of the question here. You don't see the whole picture of it. Once you appoint a person to manage the company's communications, all the efforts currently run by the community - including the Facebook account, the amigaos.net website, etc. - will need to become centrally managed by this very person. This is a necessary outcome because for the company, it is not possible to be in charge of information flow when somebody else manages the channels. Therefore, this person will in fact need to do a lot of work; plus he/she will need to attend shows etc. - and you cannot really expect that an enthusiast will do that at his/her own expense.

@vox

Okay, this is going to be the last that I post on this topic. Over-scrutinising someone's behaviour isn't constructive...

You still don't get it, do you? It doesn't matter if you feel justified to publicly criticise Hyperion and Steven personally; it's still not the best way to get what you want. It's not going to help open up the lines of communication further which, need I remind you, the wider community also played a part in disrupting (so don't blame it all on Hyperion's PR).

Getting back to the whole PR thing, I'd rather see a human face to the company, than have it hidden behind corporate style PR. I'd rather hear from the engineers, than a spinmeister. That does mean treating them like humans though, and humans aren't perfect.

All things considered, I think that Steven has done a pretty decent job of improving communication so far. Could he do things better? Sure, there's always room for improvement.

Hans

@Hans

+ 1

@Hans

>Getting back to the whole PR thing, I'd rather see a human >face to the company, than have it hidden behind corporate >style PR. I'd rather hear from the engineers, than a >spinmeister. That does mean treating them like humans >though, and humans aren't perfect.

>All things considered, I think that Steven has done a pretty >decent job of improving communication so far. Could he do >things better? Sure, there's always room for improvement.

Point is it needs to be more human, forget the buzz word. Blog is not much if all comments are off, support forum if threads are locked and little answers given (when users behave!) and irony and criticism towards any serious questions (re-read the AmiWest thread before I reacted) is really one way street.

Its community call to demand two way street. I am not saying Steven isn`t perfect either: in coding, with nice sense of humor and doing great job in managing the OS development. That kind of job should let him do that job and not do the support.

I could say the same somewhere else, but that is not the point. Point is that OS4 only community is here. And that two way street can be better. Go check Feature requests and replies to them. Finally, one of them is done. Many to go.

@tlosm

Wish list:

PowerPC alliance
FLOSS alliance, we anyway port most of FLOSS
Long term agreement with all Linux distros to officially support Acube and AEON board, maybe Pegs and A1s if possible
Alliance with PPC AROS, porting some parts of AROS
Ambient and MUI4 ports
...
Better Hyperion support
More workload even on Kickstarters and Bounties
Hyperion blog and support forum with open communication and with knowledgable community mods for each part.
New improved AmigaOS 4 website with some articles from old one
On road to AmigaOS 5: Printers and scanners
On road to mobile devices: Wi-Fi, Touchscreen, Power Saving
On road to desktop: multi user, easy to network
On road to Zion: easily portable, CPU independent (hey, are the TAO boys alive