Is it indifference or is it maturity?

I've been visiting back at the previous favorite Amiga website again lately. Wow. Hundreds of posts about ACube, Sam440m, Clone-A. etc. Given the subject matter, a lot of it is speculation, of course, since not a lot of info has been given out yet.

Meanwhile, over here at Amigans.net, there's barely over twenty posts about Sam440. Some might say this site is almost dead, or that for all our bluster at times, we who have moved over here are really indifferent to most things "Amiga."

But I think the rather "matter of fact" reaction coming from here so far is for another reason. Reality, and the perception thereof. The trolls who occasioned the start-up of this site are still pouring out speculation and FUD over at the "other" sites. We, on the other hand, are not as blinded or as unreasonable as the trolls would like to make us appear. (i.e. not irrational "fan boys.")

It's one thing to hope for the best for these projects, or even set aside some money for the possibility of them coming to market. But we know and admit that it could still be a long hard road for any or all of them.

Those of us who bought A1's (wow, was that ever a long time ago, already. Mine is still running great.) back in the day, didn't necessarily assume that there would be a sudden explosion of an Amiga renaissance. I think most of us hoped for it. We hoped for the best. We spent money on hardware, club memberships, and who knows what-all because we hoped that the A1 project would succeed. But it wasn't totally shocking when it ran into problems, either.

I see that a few of the trol,,,,,,, (err, "kiddies") have registered here lately too, and are trying (subtly enough so as not to get banned) to pour cold water on any positive sounding news about the current Amiga hardware projects. Of course, the chatter is a little more "robust" at the other sites! ("Robust" = negative and loud)

At first I wondered if it was a "bad thing" that there was so little reaction here, even when the proportion to the lower number of registered users here is taken into account.

I think the difference is accounted for not by a lower level of interest on our part, but by a higher level of maturity. Instead of assigning blame to Ainc, Bill M, Eyetech, Allen, or anyyone else for that matter. . . instead of going ballistic and calling everyone a thief or a crook when a project goes belly up, we're able to recognize the realities and difficulties of trying to run a business in a small market and simply react more realistically (i.e., maturely.)

Thanks, everyone, for leaving the news releases unmarred by speculation and discouragement (that is, all except the trol .... err, "kiddies.") The little bit of a grin and tiny spark of hope lighted by such releases will merely bring that much more happiness if they actually succeed and the Amiga gets on its feet again.

Paul

@Paul

Thank you for your post. I moved this thread to make it show up on the front page.

Things will be slow here for a while, until more come to realise that there's more to being an amigan than just waiting and arguing over old topics.

Most amigans are a bit stuck in the "what next" mode and being used to the massive argumentation threads that we've seen for years on end elsewhere. Leaving little room for just being an amigan. There's some news released in the community, like the final update, and things speed up for a short while with lots of chatter. And then it cools down quickly again, everyone getting back to the "what next" mode.

What we're trying to achieve with this site is to get people to not forget about their amigas in the times in between. What we want you to write about is your every day amiga usage, ask for help, getting tips on new software and stuff to do. The old days was a time of creativity and fun, so let's try to get back to that place and not just focus on the big things or all the bad blood that exists between the different groups in our community. Sure there's been a lot of bad stuff happning to us, and there's plenty of places to discuss those things, but what are you doing with your amiga right now? Share your experiece, show us the software that you're working on, the music, the graphics or whatnot.

Let's get back to being the creative group of people that Amigans was once known and praised as.

@orgin

Quote:

Using Aweb to read this.....

Crunching DnetC

And in a mo...

Fire up WookieChat whilst using TuneNET to listen to some ChoonZ



Do I get my brownie points now or later ?

@Outcast

oh here, have a whole bag of them!!!

@Paul

Thanks for your kind comments, yes, some "Kiddies" from other sites have indeed signed on here, but the difference is that our Terms of Service for this site are very stringent, step out of line just once and those kiddies can find their accounts locked forever.

And yes, we do know how bad things are, but as you said, there is no point in bleating about it. That said, the occassional exasperated post, isn't forbidden, just as long as its not used to beat certain companies or individuals as a stick. That is not what this site is about.

Most of the Amigans.net staff actually own an AmigaOne and actually USE them on a regular basis. Of course, You don't have to own an Amiga computer that can run OS4, to post here, but the majority of people to whom this site appeals to, hope to be able to one day (soon, I hope)

Thanks for your post.

@Mikey_C

Quote:

That would certainly be nice. Unfortunately, right now, for me, it would have to be almost a give-away. It's not that I don't think Amiga is worth it, it's just that right now things are so tight that I can't even afford toner for my printer, much less the money to buy a new machine. On the other hand, a coworker has been quietly trying to put together a second Linux machine for me from parts cobbled from discarded machines at work. It would be intended for use as a router that would be kept ?in a closet?, so to speak (if this keeps up I'm going to need a bigger switch ). From there the question becomes ?What sort of networking set-up would any new Amiga hardware have on board, and would the associated software play nice with other OS's (such as Linux, Mac OSX and Mac Classic OS)??

One mistake that I think I made with my current Linux box was to install the OS without having the Linux box hooked up to my little peer-to-peer network here. Now I haven't been able to get it talking nice with the network that works just fine between the two Mac OS's and the printer. Has anyone heard anything more about that project that is designed to use a home's electrical wiring as the wiring for a LAN?

@Billsey

Ive seen commercial sales of LAN over Home-Power adapters here in New Zealand under HomeLAN or some similar name,

@all-others

I agree with the above sentiments in this thread...
the amigans.net community are more "open eyed" in general as to anything that is possible and also the difficulties,

I personally hope I will be able to lay hands on an AOS4 capable PPC board myself,
all the best to everyone :)

Belxjander

@orgin & Mikey

Thanks for moving it. I was afraid it might sound too provacative to put anywhere but free-for-all. I wasn't trying for that. I didn't want my post to be fodder for another flame fest. I was mainly trying to buck up the troops, so to speak, by pointing out a reasonable explanation for the low key response we've had here. But admittedly, I was venting a little when I saw some of the useless negativity showing up.

Paul

Quote:

Hi Mikey_C,


Here's a statistic to be proud of.....

HTTP://Amigans.net (I would believe), since it's inception has the highest (micro)AmigaOne (okay, AmigaNG), users per capita in the world!

@Paul

Your post is refreshing, to say the least. There is another possibility - that the people who post here are those that are sick to death of petty arguments started by teenaged sociopaths. We have learnt the futility of argument and know that at least here we can remain free of such annoyances.

@Mikey_C

Quote:
Gotta love the rules here!

@Paul

Hi Paul,

> Some might say this site is almost dead, or that for all our bluster at times,
> we who have moved over here are really indifferent to most things "Amiga."

Well, we were 'liberal' when we bought the A1-XE ; 'X' car or 'x' computer is a nice
liberal label! But, since it didn't quite 'lightup the world' according to executive
management, so we've grown older and more conservative! I don't think it's indifference
or maturity; more like Amiga 'esprit decor'. Do you 'believe' there's still more to come,
or should someone turn off the lights? I'll go with Yogi Berra's call: 'it ain't over,
until it's over!'


> At first I wondered if it was a "bad thing" that there was so little reaction
> here, even when the proportion to the lower number of registered users here is
> taken into account.

We have the real deal! What ever EyeTech did about the building of new A1s
ultimately changed the course of Amiga history. I have no idea on how to change
the numbers? I can only hope the new machines are available to spread Amiga
OS4 around a little more. Nice article posted!

Hi Orgin,
> Share your experiece, show us the software that you're working on,
> the music, the graphics or whatnot.

Well, it's a learning curve for me in SDLBasic. Right now, 'How to evaluate a poker hand!'.

My first program, "DealorNoDeal" turned out fairly well, so poker is the next one.

@Paul

I just thought of something (with apologies to those in the armed forces):

?The few, the proud, the Amigans!?



And to back it up, in the past I've had the opportunity to be at gatherings involving Rocky Sickman (one of the marine guards among the American hostages that Iran held for 444 days at the end of Jimmy Carter's term as President of the USA).

He was always quiet, always watchful, . . .










and most times always kept a wall at his back.

It wasn't as though he was afraid or anything, though. He was just being a marine guard. He is one of the few that I would actually be afraid to try anything with.


And he's smaller than me.

@thread

"Is it indifference or is it maturity?"

For most I speak with, it begins with a feeling of being powerless to affect change. That, in turn, leads to indifference. Quite insightful really, when you realize there are thousands of people in the community who expressed the desire for change at one point or another.

#6

@Paul

For me it is both.

When we had the time with the AmigaOne we did alot of effort
to pull many over the line to join the new generation. After that
Eyetech quited it fell all to a hold on the hardware site. Luckely
Hyperion did go true with OS4 so that the AmigaOne era did go on.

Now it is really time to move on with the hardware, but as long as
it is not ready there is not much we (the users) can do about it.
This is where the indifference kicks in for me, i have done my thing
and i am waiting till the new hardware comes out and hopefully
there will be alot of people who will buy the new hardware and so in
a way also support the OS4 site of things.

I really hope that our next try will be a succes. If the Italians have
learned from the past they should know how to do it. I wish them
also the best with their linux/embedded part as this will surely be
used as a foundation to build their Amiga-hardware-platform on.

@all

My son makes music with his tracker on the A1260/PPC and i do
my budget-stuff on the A1SE and the site for our amigaclub.

My daily machien is an IBook G4.

My future machine that i wish for is an OS4 tablet-computer.

@Paul

Nice post.
Da Rude!

@pixie

Quote:

"You sound a like a fortune cookie."

Seriously, if you read accurately, you would have noticed that I wasn't QUESTIONING anything. I was making an assertion and gave evidence for it.

Paul

@Paul

You're right you don't pose any questions, but for the title, which is presented as the summit of it all.

Well let's dissect some of your assertions:
Quote:
I would think that being an Amigan is foremost being a fan boy, and in Amiga Land that usually went with big expectations, lots of 'told you so' because, in the end the world isn't as nicely as we'd like it to be, nor should the world end because we were wrong...

Quote:
I wouldn't say it is very mature to label others without direct quoting, as for being robust, you might as well call it any other name... 'uninteresting times' perhaps could also fit, but it wouldn't fit as nicely and blunt as robust still...

Quote:
It isn't nice to stirr the things up even when we have our backs fully covered (TOS), one of the ideas I have of maturity comes from knowing how to handle different points of views...

@Paul
I guess this site is better suited to persons who actually own an A1 of some sort, I think generally/overwhelmingly we are pretty happy especially knowing that our past experiences will make the next incarnation of HW far more robust, not to mention it kept the development of AOS advancing. Nice post.


ace

@pixie

you just gotta find something to argue about huh?
thanx for giving the thread a negative tone in the end. appreciated. really. :/

... as for the topic of the thread, i hope you are right. =)
as for me personally, i can't be bothered with all speculations and whatever. i just quickly browse through the threads to see if some VIP has written anything. lately things seems to have gotten to a few important developers, so i hope something materializes soon, we can't afford to loose more people. we need new people for this tiny amiga community to get healthier. that way the negativism (that i am sure still will be there) won't be as visible, and people will find other things to focus on. as for me, i'll continue shutting up and keep on doing what i am doing. :) jacki.... uh.. porting stuff. :)