Cell Processor support in OS4

Bare with me.

The new version of OS4 has "UNIX-liked Shared Object" support, as stated by Rogue.

Today a friend of mine used the the new IBM PPC/CELL SDK. He wanted me to see how these things ran under Yellow Dog Linux on my PS3.

They didn't, but in an interesting way.

The error message was "Shared Libraries are not YET supported by ...."

My copy of Yellow Dog is pre-release. Their problem, what they were working on at that time, was making Yellow Dog Cell, rather than just PPC compiled.

Since then IBM released its Beta SDK.

I might have the whole thing wrong. But IBM was saying that support for Cell would be "much easier" now.

The problem of course with a thread based system like Cell, is programming beyond the PPC core to the SPEs.

The problem then is do we end up with PPC compiled programs and then also Cell compiled.

What if by using a Shared Library loader, the shared objects could be processed the normal way on a PPC (no code change), and the very same code would make use of the SPEs when run on a Cell. After all it is the loading mechanism that needs to be aware, for in one sense a shared library can be thought of as a thread.

This is speculative, and technically ignorant speculation to boot.

And no it is not a revival of PS3 thing by other means. What seems to be afoot is that IBM is creating a family compile environment which can get the most from the PPC/Cell that it finds.

Rogue's reference to "UNIX-liked Shared Object" was repeated 3 times (in two different contexts). The big question for me is why include it at all, unless it has implications for OS4 and how programs are run on it.

Rather than being a "nice extra" perhaps it is an essential for the future of OS4 on the PPC family of CPUs (including naturally enough the Cell and its successors).

Feel free to correct me, but the impression of running a recently compiled Cell app on an old version of Linux quickly adapted for the PS3 Cell might imply more than just one thing not yet done - hence instead of Rogue saying Linux-like, he said Unix-like.

@GregS

It's funny. When I saw that, I was thinking that they might be trying to make it easier to port Linux stuff to OS4, but you might be a lot closer than me.

@Billsey

I am sorry, for a while we were quite excited by what we found when running Linux on the PS3 "shared libraries not yet supported".

However, looking at the SPE section the thread based nature of the code is pretty clear. Plus we made a fundamental compiling error and may have been using some form of virtual code, instead of Cell compiled binary.

I do find the reference to Unix-like shared objects, a bit strange, I keep feeling if Rogue wanted to refer to something that helps the Linux porting, he would have said "Linux-like".

Hopefully someone here, might be able to unscramble what this actually might mean. Rogue made three references to it, in two places - it seems to have some importance.

One of the problems the community has is that so much is negatively charged, attention to the few bits of information we do get is either ridiculous or largely ignored.

Rogue under NDA's and whatever, always succeeds in communicating important things without saying much. Usually it is the passing details which have the most information. Like his reference to working on the distribution framed within a timetable, that begins it on Monday.

He is not saying anything about the release schedule, but conclusions of timing is not difficult either.

What could "Unix-like shared objects" be, is this anything to do with SPE code distribution? Is it to do with Linux, or is it something else again?

Hi GregS,


We got big problems with the CPU that's coming next.... I mean, is it 64bit/multicore G5s or Cell with more than 7 SPEs and higher than 3.4 GHz?

These technology companies never seem to know where they're going. I mean, are there, or AREN'T there going to be motherboards with Cell CPUs on them released???

DOES G4/G5 compiled code work on a Cell? IF you've written assembly programs, is the Cell 100% compatible with ALL the G5 assembly commands? ALL G4 assembly commands?


And again are they EVER going to release mortherboards with Cell CPUs on them?

@Atheist

I wish I knew.

The easiest long term fashion would be to compile applications for something like Tao's VP, and port the AOS to each new CPU and configuration.

From a VP position AOS would be a neat, small host environment.

It would give much more freedom to CPU developers in the long run, for the industry is moving much faster than we are.

If I invest in software, I should expect it to run in the future, not go into limbo every time there is a significant upgrade in HW.

I really think this is the tidy solution.

AOS is uniquely placed, because of its size, and design, to make minimal ports for CPUs, providing of course that parts of it and apps could be put into some VP environment and changed at translation.

The Linux solution of Porting and recompiling everything has been progressively refined, but the bulkiness and uneveness of this is purely old-world.

@GregS

The Linux solution to upgrading is also a cumbersome mess that assumes that all Linux users are on broadband or at least on the Internet with their Linux machine and introduces so many hoops for non-connected users to squeeze through that upgrading at all becomes an impractical nightmare. I beg the Amiga community to not follow that path.