Natami

http://www.natami.net


Hmmmm..

@orgin

Quote:

Hi,

@orgin

to Slow [060 - even at 200Mhz] !
NOT HDTV res compatible .. who need today a new Board with PAL/NTSC ??
Who need HAM today ???
The same goes to 16bit samples ....
And 8 bit planar .... [but this is not sooo bad ;) ]
Genlock is nice .. but still PAL/NTSC.Outdated!
Copper is NICE!
Blitter ..? All GFX cards have this today...but->
The 2D blitter specs nice.
3D -> ? .. comparing to a TNT2 or what ?

I would see ->

A PCI or ather Exp. card with REAL enhancements TODAY :

HDTV Res minnimum !
24/32 bit planar
HDR support !
64bit Truecolor
Copper in full 64bit colordeep.
Blitter 256bit or 512bit bus.
NO 3D [this is better with today GFX cards]
NO Floppy controler [very outdated and only expansiv]

This would give a good "second level" GFX enhanchement to
AmigaOS.

Let this card act as a slave to the Main GFX card and doing this
stuff that today GFX cards cant/or only bad doing.

Please dont try to catch even old 3D PC cards ...

R-TEAM

@R-TEAM

If the project is real then I don't think that they are trying to create something that would be on par with modern PC hardware but rather a piece of hardware that you can play around with retro style.

Hi,

@orgin

"Retro-Style" is for me the minnimig or Clone-A.

This let you use the old things on real HW without Emulation
on new boards that run nice.

NATAMI is the [imho bad] try to expand the classic system
components.
But ->
No one need HAM/8bit-Planar/16bit-Audio today.
And ->
No classic software [or the OS] use SuperAGA.
So for me a waste of time.
It is not half and not full [i hope you understand this ;) ]

Look at the C64 scene .. it have modern HW with more RAM,faster
CPU and more storage capacity [MMC] .. but [IMHO] the chipset
is the same [GFX resolution/audio] - it have other Audio
chips but with the same funktion,only better sound.

16bit sound support not one classic prg.
SuperAGA the same.

For the classic prg. i need it not.
And for modern usage it is outdated.

I think too that it is even today room for copper and nice blitter
usage, but at a aceptable level and not with ->
classic is 15 Year behind Today
Natami is only 10 Years behind ....

R-TEAM

@orgin

VERY, VERY cool!

Maybe a powerful "classic" platform will encourage more 68k ports. I'd STILL like to see MPlayer for 68k (or DVPlayer!).

@R-TEAM

It wouldn't surprice me if this is Clone-A (if the project is real).

Statements like "No one" should be used with caution. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there who wouldn't mind being able to use ham compatible software or to simply just tinker away with it. The new features just opens a new window for tinkering, retro style. retro style doesn't just mean "use old software" it's also about exploring what you can do with the hardware, something that isn't done very often on modern hardware.

Minimig and clone-a both supports HAM, so I guess they should remove those features then and you'll be happy?

You're even contradicting yourself. What use is a planar 24/32 bit mode? There's no software for it. And you can't actually do anythign useful with it. Planar modes only have a use when you have a palette. 64 bit color? There's no software for it. 64 bit copper? There's no software for it.

Hi orgin,


Let me put it this way, after reading that, if I had $1,000,000 today, I would have almost $0 tomorrow!


Is the 68060 compatible enough to a 68000? If only they had one of those there too. Hope it includes the FPU. Also, only 16 MB of chip ram? That's insufficient, as the graphics subsystem of an Amiga is quickly compromised in what it can do by lack of it.


Amiga is truly still amazing!

Hi,

@orgin

I think the clone-A is another thing ;)

HAM was used because the limmited of the chipset.
With only 8bit deep it was a good solution to display
more colors - with the drawback of more system resources
needed.

Today "NO ONE" need it more :P
It is not smaler in size of the Files -> JPG IS smaler by better quality, amd i speak NOT from JPG2000 ...
It have only ~250.000 colors, with the typical HAM restrictions.
The HAM Anims WAY larger than WAY better mpg anims .. dont speak over DivX or h264 ...
The only point is -> it stay in GFX memory only as 8bit ...

But say it with the words of Rogue:
"Let's face it, today's cell phones usually have more CPU power and faster video access than the average classic Amiga"

And have all min. 12bit color screen [most 24bit].
And enough GFX memory for 24bit Images ..

So today no one need HAM on new HW.
The HAM emu layer in OS4 is enough.No [imho] game use HAM too.

I dont say drop HAM .. but it is not needed more and bring nothing.
You can draw today with 24bit GFX prg .. why should i going step
back to HAM ?

Planar 64bit -> hold and manipulate 2 24bit images at planar base in memory
without CPU usage.[genlocking maybe]
No one said that a 8bit palette IS the max !
You can use a 16bit palette and doing all the thing that only on
palette based usage are possible.FOR this the new develop of apps in a modern
system with OS4 will not a Waste of time !

And this is the same with an good super-fast Copper.Develope new OS4 software for
a system with unique possibilitiy are a good start for a "New Amiga".

But for a system with 8bit planar .. who need this today.
With an AOne it is more/higher resolution and way more GFX memory available as with
this thing.And i have 16bit sound and way more powerfull 3D Chip
as the NATAMI ever will .. and this is realy NOT today HighEnd HW ...

The SuperAGA concept have nice ideas .. but only pointet to the limmited of
doing old stuff faster .. but not better and loking in the Future..

Better make a synergy of the actual 3D HW and the good-old amiga custom cipset
possibilitys.Dont try to compete with even old GFX cards ...


R-TEAM

@R-TEAM

As I said, those who like to tinker around retro style could be interested in this hardware (if it's for real).

I think you are just rambling because you think that the creators of this hardware wants to create som sort of new super computer for the general mass. I'm quite sure that that is not the purpose.

If a project like this would have to incoorporate all kinds of weird stuff that amigans can think of then if would never be finished.

If you want something that matches a modern computer then you'd be better of getting an A1 if you can find one. I don't see 'natami' as wanting to pose as such a computer, but rather be a geek box for people who like to play around with fun hardware.

There's absolutely no need to be more negative about this project than a project that just clones old OCS/ECS/AGA hardware.

To begin the fun neverending quote myself machine:

"If the project is real then I don't think that they are trying to create something that would be on par with modern PC hardware but rather a piece of hardware that you can play around with retro style."

Hi,

@orgin

he,he ... you see it as a retro machine ..
I see it too as a retro machine ..
BUT ->

On Amigaworld.net and other sites it is handled as the "New Amiga".

I see the problem from the bussinies view ...

It was say it is more powerfull than even an AOne [even is this
sayd that thas is going only for the "Voxel Engine", the statement have
become a "flying Word" ] ....
It was sayd it iss full compatible to old apps and can maybe later
expanded with an PPC card to run OS4...

So it was purely statet it IS the NEW Amiga.

Many user will then buy this and bring so the market for modern PPC based
systems more down.

This will massiv hurt the development of modern HW is the big mass of user
buy 68k systems ... Even block the developing of new OS4 PPC nativ SW.

So -> for me it is an try to change the way of the Future from Amiga to
more 68k and custom-chips than to modern systems.

R-TEAM

@R-TEAM

So basically you read something on some other sites and then came here to do whatever you can to put the effort down. That's nice.

Quote:

For those that might want to actually read what was being said about the specs by one of the NatAmi devs at AW.net ....

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/v ... hp?topic_id=25671&forum=9


Plaz

@R-TEAM

Quote:

Am I reading this correctly?
You fear this being successful and therefore having a possible ill effect on hardware that might be produced capable of running OS4?

Hardware developers are looking for things they -can- do from a legal perspective given the current situation. I think your angst is misdirected at those actually trying to do something here.
Just my 2?.

#6

@R-TEAM

Quote:

The possibility of using shaders to simulate copper functions will be explored as well. Just don't give up on the idea of having a copper as well.

Hi Plaz,


Thank you for pointing me to that thread. I saw the title and ignored reading it.


Now that I know this much more about it, frankly, I will sufer a mental breakdown if I can't get it!!!!!!!


AMOS Professional, get ready for business!!!!!!


(Still say it needs more chipram, at least 128 Megs, will be crippled without it. And as someone pointed out on AW.N, probably even a 4GHz x86 can't run an Amiga emulator properly, there's just something fundamentally wrong with those, maybe it's windross in the background, who knows, and NOW who cares!!!!!!!!! )



AOS3.9 @ 3.9 Megs R U L E Z them a!!l

@orgin

I think the point of NetAmi is low latency to video memory on reads and writes,

I do question if this is important or not, because most PC games, uses DMA transfers from fast memory to graphic memory, and it only needs to do this 50 frames per seconds, I don?t think you notice if pixel plotter write and read to graphic memory or system memory.

I?m shore there are some thing NetAmi can do better then PC hardware, maybe scroll texts and so on, but do we really care about that this days?

And I?m shore that will do better when there is lots of Graphic conversions, big endian CPU are not designed for x86 graphic card, badly coded routines can suffer from lots of BE to LE conversions.

What put me the most down is 680x0 CPU, I think better to stick fast PowerPC on it, emulate 680x0 whit JIT, JIT can be where efficient on PowerPC, because there is no endian issues.

I do understand developers are doing this for fun, but I like to see NetAmi run Quake3 or some thing like that just to prove there point about NetAmi being faster then AmigaOne.

This in no way derails me from AOS4.0.


A) I have and will keep my AmigaOne
B) I'll buy Hyperion's AOS4.x upgrade not if but when available

Hi,

@orgin

please excuse me .. but this site here is focused on OS4,
and so i think the best place do discuse of the drawback
off a project that make a Hype for a new 68k/custum-chip
based Amiga.

On AW.net it is useless to post - to many trolls from any fraction [MOS/AROS/Purely-Anti-OS4....]
On a retro site it is useless to - the Fans are in trance by the
picture that the "New Amiga" is bringing for the Future.
[usage of all good old 68k apps with full HW access into all eternity..
who need this crap new HW board with no Amiga in it ...]

@number6

do not underestimate the block of the "Only a Amiga with custom-chips
is a Amiga" Amiga user ...
particularly with the possibility to update this board in the future
with an PPC card and so this user-group is grown by the user that
like OS4 but would like custom-chips or any thing "Amiga Spezialized"
on the Board.
Even is the PPC-Card never relased.

My Main point was that the idea of a enhanced AGA chipset is not Bad at all,
but with this way it brings nothing to the Future of OS4 and so
is only a drawback for Amiga.

R-TEAM

@R-TEAM

Quote:

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The title of this site itself:


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