Serious AmigaOS future discussion

In the light of the handful of threads that has received some posts about the current limits of AmigaOS and the viability of the X1000 platform I'm creating this thread for those particular discussion to continue without having to involve the 'normal' threads here on the site.

Discussing and voicing opinions about where AmigaOS should go is perfectly fine, it's just healthy to see where people want things to go. just stay out of personal attacks and keep it calm. People who have no interest in AmigaOS and just want to slag it off (in favor of other platforms/clones or not) need not to bother though.


Edit: Ohh and if people do get personal then notify a moderator instead of posting about it in this thread. Posting about it will just add to the pollution rather than solve the problem.

@orgin

Thanks.

---------------------------------

Even if we accept the premise for a minute that Amiga OS in its current incarnation is a single user mode OS that is being kept on life support it is, in my view, being throttled by the lack of several features.

I suspect that the lack is caused by the past thinking that backwards compatibility is super-important (and is indeed the main feature of MorphOS often touted online). OK, so I'm put off by some of the behaviour in this community (especially - ha - when its directed at me) but none of that would matter if the OS itself was something I could use every day. Because I can't use it every day, it gets relegated, and eventually forgotten about and I get more used to Ubuntu and AmigaOS becomes less familiar.

One of the biggest improvements for me was being able to launch a shell, by default, and it not take up the entire screen width. Jeez was that annoying.

There is a mixture of problems as I see it, first the lack of features. Some of which are transversal, some of which apply to the future.

STABILITY

Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots about running some pile of trash downloaded from Aminet in 2007. I want to be able to switch on memory protection while I'm doing serious work even if it means when I try and launch TuneNet it pops up a requester saying "Sorry mate, you are running in memory protected mode". EVEN if it knocked 20-50% off the responsiveness of window dragging. I might then be able to get to the end of a document, or some coding without feeling stressed the whole thing is going to lock up.

SMP

Its a fact of life that hardware has gone multi-core. Even if there is something else ten years down the line the lack of multi-core support in Amiga OS and its offshoots makes it look like the buffers at the end of the rail line is coming at us all fast.

INSTALL/BACKOUT support

Yes, you should be able to rollback your install to a previous version, and configuration, only losing the ability when you checkpoint/commit.

USER MODE SECURITY

Have you any idea how wide open AmigaOS really is? God forbid it ever get vastly popular. This is less important than the other two but I hope someone is thinking about how to improve this especially now Firefox, a popular target for exploits, is in daily use.

64-BIT

Well, ok. Davey was correct when he said this wasn't a MUST but a nice to have. But at some point its going to transition from one to the other.

On the subject of the X1000, I really don't have anything to add beyond the fact that A-EON really need to start appearing to take the thing seriously if they want everyone else to. A cheap amateurish site and disorganised launches do not a great impression make (on me) of their intentions. Also, I think they should learn from Bill Buck's mistakes and not let members of the conglomerate go around flaming people - or even seeming to encourage others to. If they take stock, and return to courtesy even to those who are not interested in the product, they might actually turn into the company we all, I hope, want them to be.

@DaveP

they are all important improvements and hearing what Hyperion says they are in the road map.
But i don't see all this instability in my two OS4 version.
I have a SAM mini 533 here at work and i use it every day to develop and test my programs.
It is on almost 12-13 hours without any problem (except the crashes caused by my programs..)
So i think there is something wrong with your SAM.

Regards the future way of OS4, ithink the most important thing is the memory protection. We need something that doesn't kill the entire system if something went wrong.

Your other points are still valid but i don't put the "user mode" on top of the list and neither the 64bit support. There are a lot of most important things.
Also installation/rollback is already provided by AmiUpdate. Simply all programs should supports it

@DaveP

> One of the biggest improvements for me was being able to launch a shell, by default, and it not take up the entire screen width. Jeez was that annoying.


My Amiga shells never take up the full width of the screen.

@afxgroup

Quote:

No, there isn't. It runs linux just peachy. Its because you have got used to avoiding all the things that cause it to crash and I will guarantee we use different combinations of tools.

Quote:

For OS4.1 in general, agreed. For X1000, then its going to be embarassing if it comes out single core.

Quote:
Yes, they are unless someone can convince me otherwise.


Quote:
You'll notice I didn't either, and its user mode security. As in, given its a user mode OS, some security.

Quote:

Configuration. It needs to be there for configuration.

@BillE

Since the OS4.1 update 1 it hasn't here either. Thats why I was so pleased.

@DaveP

You could actually configure the window size in previous incarnations as well.

@orgin

Yes I know. Its why I said:

Quote:

@DaveP

Ahh sorry. At least I keep the post count up ;)

@DaveP

Since your discussion seems to be mostly focussed on some basics, I nominate "printing".
I trust I won't have to expound on that one word, and how every day use comes into play on that topic.

#6

@number6

Well, I run my AmigaOS 4.1 system without printing. I work around it like all true Amigans should! I get it to print out a tuple like this for each cell:

{ x,y,pen colour }

I then get out some graph paper, and some felt tip pens. Three weeks later and voila...

@DaveP

Bah! How primitive

I have an old (But fully working) HP6127 Deskjet printer with a network card. Thanks to the Driver on OS4 Depot I can output text from Wordworth via this printer.

The files I use are...
http://www.os4depot.net/share/driver/printer/hp_photosmart.lha
k
and then for the network, I use some 68k (System friendly) program I got off Aminet - I can't remember the name of it now.

I'll update when I get home tonight.

But anyhow, it works.

Mikey C

@DaveP

Which motherboard (and rev.) are you using.?

@DaveP

Love your sense of humor Dave...but for those who would jump on your comment as somewhat cynical of progress on the print front...

If I read your intent for this thread correctly, you are looking also at "market". Certain things can be accomplished through print on Amiga, but careful reading of 6 years of threads will show a certain # of hoops to be jumped through to achieve one's goal.
I see your thrust as "in order to expand outside of the amiga "knowledge" market, I would like to see not only more functionality, but ease of use for the new 1st time user."
(if I read you wrong, please let me know)

Your thrust is profound, because if print is going to "require" the knowledge of amigans who know how to jump through hoops, then you basically are simultaneously admitting that there is no intent to extend the market.
I only mention the above to stress the importance, not for the sake of criticism.

#6

@number6

Quote:

You've got it exactly. And not just for new users. Even old warhorses like me no longer have the patience for farting around with this stuff in order to find out how to get stuff working again.

Seeing someone say "All you have to do is" followed with any reference to ed s:user-startup makes me want to cringe with embarassment.

@DaveP

But, But, But my solution doesn't require that, of course it does require you to have an HP printer

Hehe

@Mikey_C

So...

All you have to do (starting with OS4.0 - as Kay did on aw.net) is:

0. Try to log into ebay to buy printer. Whoops. Can't.
0.5 Try to download latest update with IBrowse. Can't. Hyperion's site doesnt work with it.
1. Use Windows to download the latest updates.
2. Burn a new ISO or three
3. Work through to get up to date.
4. Decide to update to 4.1.
5. Buy 4.1
6. Wait.
7. Wait.
8. Wait some more.
9. Fresh clean install.
10. Use OWB that comes with it to download the latest update 2.
11. Fresh clean install.
12. Download timberwolf.
13. Wait 3 minutes for it to start.
14. Log into EBay. Lockup.
15. Reboot.
16. Log into EBay with OWB.
17. Bid on printer.
18. Decide to follow Mikey_C's instructions.
19. Installed. Now wait for printer, check GMail email to find out if I've won.
20. I won! Reply ... oh, it crashed leaving feedback. OK, boot up Windows and leave feedback.
21. Printer arrives! Plug in.
22. Fix configuration.
23. Print.

@DaveP

LMAO - Talk about going round the houses

But yes, I can see the frustration for someone upgrading from OS4.0

However once you have 4.1 installed, OWB will allow you to download a newer version and then go to town with the rest.

(At least I think that's right)

The problem with all the niggles you have highlighted (and which I largely agree with) is that Hyperion are not a bottomless pit when it comes to resources. I understand why some things are not getting done as quickly as they should.

@DaveP

I hope this accents your comment about "warhorses" even more.
For eons Hyperion (prolly AI too) had #s in their hands about estimated # of amigas/amigans in this world.
People that are counted on in projected sales totals to "come back" have been absent for too many years to have retained the amiga configure mentality.
I've spoken to such people, and basically, they feel they need to be retrained.
Ergo, I firmly believe the only folks who can use the system for print (at will), are the core of those who have stuck around, maintained their education, and learned their specific system. Mikey's post firmly illustrates this as well.
(again, the above is just my feeble attempt to accent how dreadfully important print is going to be, if we are to go forward).

#6

@number6
Quote:


And folks, NO ONE reads threads like our Number6 reads threads... I believe they are imprinted on his cerebral cortex, somehow.

@Mikey_C

Of course, I'm just underlining where "small" things like this make it not ready for the prime-time. We also don't have the wiki organisation to cover all of the niggles and other thing ending in iggles that a user is going to hit. The only thing one can do is ask number6 aka "Google site:amiga#?.#?"".