Are AmigaKit still selling X5000 machines?

@redfox

You were referring to what Joerg said. Sorry.

I can not state whether it is an "issue".

I only know that after 4.x income was not really a valid discussion point anymore, but 3.x -was-....

I mentioned some concern (knowing these people) that they might try to backport. I was assured this could/would/should (take your pick) never ever happen.

Naturally shortly thereafter appeared the posts on EAB about backporting. No one tried to hide it. It's all public information on the website.

#6

WTF now A-Eon doesn't have access to valid OS4.1FE serial numbers...seriously???

@number6

Thank you for your continuing efforts to clarify the ongoing situation. I really do appreciate it.

I guess I am just getting weary of the whole thing.

---
redfox

Do not understand what problem are and what about everyone curious. I mean, isn' it known that aeon/amikit want to have nothing with Hyperion anymore ? If so, isn't its logical that they can just sold the hardware, and the OS for x5000 Hyperion sold separately, so dealers take the HW from AEON, and OS4 from Hyperion ?

And why for final buyer anything of this kind should be matter ? He can buy x5000 with OS4 from some dealers, and then who care from where dealers take them ? Are buyers will not buy a thing because of that ?:) Of course they give a shit.

If some dealer have x5k with os4 for now, then good. All the other stuff is of no needs to worry about.

@kas1e

The point is, that OS4 for X5000 never was and as of today still not is available separately from anywhere AFAIK ... at least it was that way back when I was still in management. It was always part of a X5000 purchase. As A-EON/ML stated to amiga-news, they don't have any licenses anymore, so even if they would sell new X5000, the customer would be on his own without AmigaOS. The only options left would be Linux or MorphOS.

So, if dealers are selling X5000 including an AmigaOS 4 license, then those machines very likely stem from the time the OEM contract between A-EON and Hyperion was still in effect ... "new old stock" so to speak, which isn't bad at all. I appreciate every way to get hardware and AmigaOS 4 to the people.


@Antique

Three! What on earth are you doing with three of them? :D

@Cyborg

Quote:

I guess that result in lots of pirate copies, is not better to offer some kind why to buy it online.

Without parts Jorge says he has not been composited for Partition Wizard, SFS, Amiga DVD, WarpOS emulation etc. (until he is composited)

I find bit strange that developers are not paid for the work per hour instead played by licensed components, hopefully Hyperion clear up contract mess. If components are only licensed I guess Jorge can sell separately, without AmigaOS.

Sure, may well be the case .. IF you can get an X5000 at all that is. I heard from a couple of people trying since months to no avail with or without AmigaOS.

If OS4 for X5000 will be sold separately or not is the decision of Hyperion management, which I left quite some time ago as you know.

@thread

Usual issue. Multiple topics in the same thread.

If we stick to the X5000 offering, the news item seems clear.
The dealers are offering a system with the correct version of AmigaOS -for- that system.

Since the offerings might vary slightly (think peripherals included here), it might help if someone compiled a short list with appropriate contact info.
That way prospective buyer can more easily see which system suits them best.

#6

@LiveForIt
Quote:composited🤔
In case you meant compensed:
Some people seem to think Hyperion owns relevant parts of AmigaOS 4.x, but that it's not the case, and never was.
Most of which used to be a part of AmigaOS 4.x is still owned by the (former) AmigaOS 4.x developers who implemented them.

For example in my case there used to be about 10 parts from me in AmigaOS 4.x. The only one which can still be used by Hyperion is newlib.library. But newlib is open source and newlib.library is easy to reimplement, at least about 20 years ago when I created shared versions of both C libraries creating newlib.library was easier than clib2.library was. Without newlib.library there is absolutely nothing of my former AmigaOS 4.x parts left Hyperion could use to block further AmigaOS development.

I guess it's similar for most other former AmigaOS 4.x developers.

Everything Hyperion did in the past about 10-15 years had only one result: They made themselves obsolete.

Maybe Hyperion would still have something relevant of the former AmigaOS 4.x parts if they would have used a competent lawyer for the AmigaOS 4.x developer contracts 🤷

Quote:I can, and for some parts do it since several years already. Some of my former AmigaOS 4.x parts are now included in A-EON's Enhancer Software.

@Joerg
Quote:

What about sold them to AEON then ? Then at least they can legaly put it in their new distro. While hyperion will still sold OS4 as it AEON at least can legaly produce their distro with less reimplenetation.

@Joerg
Quote:Is there anything important missing?
cdfs isn't easily possible because it was based on ancient AmigaOS 1.3/3.1 sources (the CDTV/CD³² versions implemented by Carl Sassenrath), even if there was not much left of it in the AmigaOS 4.x versions, but if someone needs some of the AmigaOS 4.x cdfs features not included in any other CD filesystem available for free on Aminet I could add those parts for example to AmiCDFS, AmiCDROM or even the AROS CDFS (much more work because of the AmigaOS incompatible FS API in AROS).

@Joerg

Productive conversation imo.

Maybe it is just me, but "I guess" in refernce to your belief the other former devs might be in the same position...

I do wonder if any of them would also step forward and state facts and propose solutions?

Regardless, thank you for doing so.

#6

@number6
Quote:Developers still part of the OS4 team should recheck their contracts exactly, especially the company they (think they) still might have a valid contract with (Hypeion VOF != Hyperion CVBA).
Of course it's up to them how they re-release their software in other ways instead, for free on AmiNet/OS4depot, selling them privately, or joining the A-EON development team which I'd propose.
But for most of the former AmigaOS 4.x developers there is absolutely no reason to continue working with Hyperion.

The only solution is an open source OS4.. but no. Let's continue to keep it closed like 90's. With no money it is dead

Hi Jörg,

first, nice to see you again after all those years. Hope you are fine!

We agree on many things you are saying here and on others we don't. I do not want to start defending what Hyperion with its principal shareholder did and not did. That would be ridiculous. But some points you raise are just overly simplified and thus misleading.

For example, there is the concept of a "legal successor". Only by changing the company form does not automatically nullify existing contracts, rights and duties. In my limited legal understanding, this is the same for Belgium as it is e.g. in Germany. According to your statements, you seem to believe this is not the case and everything became void as soon as Hyperion changed its company form. Can you share information this is based on?

Also, as you say yourself, for many components of the OS the legal situation is not easy at all as many people contributed to them over the years. CDFS is one example where you contributed big chunks, but where others contributed as well and all that on a basis, which Hyperion clearly had the rights for, which makes it even more complicated. And you are right, proper contracts with the developers, which stipulate proper licenses and compensations if desired would have made everybody's life so much easier and prevented so much nonsense, irritation, disputes and bad blood in the first place. But this built up since Hyperion started AmigaOS development in 2001.

After Tim and myself took over management in early 2015, we worked very hard on putting AmigaOS development on stronger feet also by ironing out as many legal and contractual issues as possible. We payed out more money to developers than was done the 15 years before (mainly from the income of the "illegal AmigaOS 4.1 FE compilation" as you call it) even if it was not nearly enough, we set up and signed new contracts (like a default developer agreement to avoid exactly said legal issues with contributions) and we also tried to settle the disputes we've inherited from the 15 years before. Unfortunately, some developers just went ahead and sold their stuff to other parties, before we've got a chance to intervene and for others there was already too much bad blood, that serious discussion was next to impossible as long as certain people were still be involved in Hyperion in some form or another. For example, I remember also asking you how much would be needed to get everything resolved, but your answer was clear in that money would not solve it. It was tried hard to minimise the impact of this "other reason", but in the end, after doing a second, non-paid full-time job at Hyperion for about 3 years, Tim and myself were beat by tricks a normal human being would never think of and had to give back control again, disillusioned, frustrated and also just tired of it. Was it our own fault? Up to some extend, definitely. We listened to wrong advice and idiotically, we could not nearly imagine, what people are willing to do way beyond all common sense to reach their own purely selfish agenda.

You propose everybody to go to A-EON? Just let me say that A-EON also had and has its parts in the whole story and the mileage with what and how they treated their "partners" - be it individuals or companies - may and does quite vary. Its just not as widely known/accepted as people like black/white more than several greys. Your experience was obviously perfect, others' has not have been so perfect.


Again, I'm not trying to defend Hyperion nor excuse everything Tim and myself did. We also made mistakes we regret, but contrary to others we can wholeheartedly tell you (and prove with our doings) our mission always has been solely the well of AmigaOS and its developers. What I'm trying to say with this long post is simply that things just are not as black and white as you (and others) often make them look like. There are wide parts of consensus between you an me, but details do matter a lot in this whole drama.

Regarding seeing everything in black and white, it is a common vision for many developers.
I had to work hard on myself to understand that people are very different from machines and that their decisions are often the result of buggy algorithms or wrong impressions.
This from my point of view, but for them the one who is bugged is me.
Once this is accepted by both parties, a negotiation can begin, the outcome of which remains uncertain.

What matters most now, however, is to resume the dialogue and see if time allows for new solutions to arrive that can allow the development of AmigaOS to move forward.

Also I am definitely convinced that the secret is to make the whole system open source but at the same time find a strong management that can profit from the development and sales of the system.

-

@all

Sorry for derailing this thread even more. maybe we should open a new one instead?

@joerg

I'm a little confused now.

Do you still have the sources for some (all) of your AmigaOS4.x work?
And do you think about
a) selling them to AEon
b) joining AEon to further develop your work


With CDFS being so prominent in your answers now, do you think updating it will cure some of the problems reported for newer audio/data cds?

Thank you

@joerg

Quote:

This also would tie in with your first paragraph?

It was always presented as a means of protection, no?

#6

So does all this mean that there won't be any more os4 verions/updates at all?