Serious AmigaOS future discussion

@Troels

Quote:

Thankfully I know you well enough to NOT look at this and assume you consider "print" an "extra" when it comes to a computer. But that's how it reads...

Looking back at Dave talking to afxgroup reminds me of a handful of posts perhaps a year ago that illustrate our language barriers here. afxgroup had mentioned a lack of time for MPlayer, someone asked a question iirc, and then afxgroup said this was the last version of MPlayer.
Now...see how one connects "lack of time" with "last".
I asked him immediately if he meant that this was the last version or the most current version. Can you see how easy it is to be misunderstood? Heh.

#6

nevermind

@thread

I think, anykind of user security/login is not that important as the most of people usually thinks. And without full memory protection such user login feature is useless. So memory protection is more important and must come first. And such thing is never 100% fool proof. User logins should be handled by server software (not the host OS) IMHO.

Another thing I've been wondering is why anybody wants to print anything to paper nowadays. I want to keep everything in digital form. Get yourself a netbook or a modern cell phone to use as paper (if you need any at all). (And use real toilet paper instead of a news paper...

@TSK

Well I for one like to think that each PDF I print contributes to creating better views in far flung rainforests.

@Thread

So if we assume that Hyperion's plan for OS4 is SMP and 64 bit support - which would pretty much start the job of severing the ties with the KS2 legacy ( ) - and that running on the X1000 buys them a couple of years breathing space to do something special. What could that be?

Despite the limited proximal memory of 64k I find the XMOS stuff really interesting. But I've no ideas springing out of that!

The apparent dead end of the PPC is still quite alarming, unless theres some major development work going on there that is as yet unreported the X1000 could be our Q60.

The "pad" type devices are here and making an impact so every bugger out there is going to be doing one for the next 12 months, but because the Hyperion effort is forced to run at a glacial pace how could they get ahead of the game? What type of device/hardware will be popular in 18 months time? Or does it matter? Have we all given a collective shrug of our shoulders?

Are we, dare I say it, still looking at AROS on x86 or ARM as the great hope long term? Given that is even less advanced than OS4.x it has even MORE of a quantum leap to make.

And what of Amiga Inc. have they finally given up the ghost? Does this mean that the developers who broke their backs writing Amiga Anywhere 2 will get to use their work on something else?

If AmigaOS breaks even on stability (yes, I know its propping up apps - but that is what an OS is expected to do these days) and breaks our addiction to running old Aminet uploaded trash - what next?

@DaveP

well, i can say to you for example that PCI-Express cards works well on SAM?

http://www.sam4x0.com/images/Sam460_Radeon_on_PCI-Express.png

Is this a good step?

@number6
Good you know me (and my bad english) that well! Guess the summer heat yesterday made everything a bit worse

What I meant to say was that printing IMO needs to be a bit down the list of prioryties. It is essential to get working but as it is not impossible as it is right now I wouldn't spend time on it before other more important stuff was done.

Stuff all users would benefit from on a daily basis must be top priority.

@DaveP
Quote: It's a good question. Will it be something for 10% of the X1000 owners to tinker with or will something usefull for all x1000 owner be ready for launch? I have no idea myself!

Quote: I think low-end SOC PPC chips will be available for a long time, the problem as I see it is that hardware needs to be built in small numbers with AmigaOS in mind driving cost up and potentional costumer # down.

Quote: At this development pace I doubt AmigaOS will be ready for the masses in 18 months. You pointed out the missing stuff yourself and I think the OS needs reach a certain level before we even think in terms like you mention above. OS4 needs to find it's place but for now IMO it's most realistic to target existing Amiga users while OS is being improved. It won't help anything trying to invent "the next big thing" at this point because almost no matter the use some fundamentals needs to be done first IMO.

Quote: I think it would be a big effort to take AROS to OS4 level. I wonder if it would be possible to take AmigaOS to AROS hardware (=some well supported X86 setup) over say 24 months without freezing the AmigaOS releases?

Quote: I certainly hope Amiga Inc is history. I don't know any developers who wrote AA2 stuff, were there any?

btw. I don't think most AmigaOS4 users have an addiction for running old stuff, I think they want to see the OS move forward even if compatibility is lost along the way. What we need is a better optimised and integrated UAE version so compatibility won't hold us back.

@Troels

Quote:
Oh yes, but I think the problem is more pressing than is widely realised. Hyperion et al are grabbing face time with current Amiga users (me), and ex Amiga users (er, me) who come back to try things out and also oddly enough people who've not tried an Amiga before (who more than likely end up trying the games online or download AROS).

With people like me, and a number of others whom I know about, unless you can use it as a desktop OS or a workstation to do 80% of your stuff 80% of the time and trust it its going to get pushed to the left or right of your KVM and then eventually off it because the kit is just too big (even a weenie Sam). Number6 has also pointed out the lower patience of returning users. There is a genuine problem with esoteric knowledge and, unfortunately a "f*ck off and work it out yourself" attitude from time to time from officials.

In order to just tread water with people like me and keep its place on the KVM switch there are a number of things AmigaOS needs to do to shape up. From silly easy wins to some tougher stuff like proper memory protection.

Thats not just to appeal to the masses, its to keep hold of the growing numbers of the easily irritated. For example, I just pulled out my Golded Studio AIX CD and had a peek to see if it would install under OS4.1 update 2 (it hasnt worked since OS4.0). No joy. Complete fail trying to install due to a DSI during something to do with a registry. Then after clicking ignore DSI errors ... slow down ... lock up ... reset and another 10 minutes wasted re-establishing all my connections and applications to where they were.

Thats just completely unnacceptable. Where would I even go to find out theres a problem? Is there an OS compatibility list? A wiki? I dont know!

But lets say Hyperion fix these fundamentals, especially the most pressing one that stops me from taking AmigaOS seriously - crash/memory protection. They are delivering SMP already as part of their Most Ambitious Project so thats catered for. But there are an army of developers hanging around the project probably trying to get their libraries and modules coping with the first SMP based kernel releases.

But they aren't all going to be occupied on their little bits of code-ownership forever. So, what kind of things could they do that might make a real difference when they work in parallel with the main effort? Why kind of subjects are they interested in? Whats coming up next? What would make nice Green Projects for them to do? There are a load of people here who have their hands all in different pies and it would make a good subject to discuss - collect together a list of cool and interesting technologies. For example, I was awake at 2am this morning waiting for a parcel to be couriered to my house. So, I went through youtube looking at the "makemagazine" weekend projects like building robots and creating circuit boards using inkjet printers which eventually led me to a very interesting stuff from Xgamestation which then led me to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller

Not pertinent to what we are discussing here, but sharing cool and silly tech tends to generate a critical mass for discussion which generates other innovative ideas.

Quote:

There are some quite famous Amiga developers still on the scene who got suckered into working on AA2. I'm wondering if they are going to take some of that work and avoid it being lost to history and put it into some meta-projects on top of the various flavours (genuine and flattery ones) of AmigaOS.

@DaveP

On a side issue, I have sent you a PM.

@Mikey_C

Thanks, I've replied.

@DaveP

Quote:

Her is a solution for you, use remote desktop, put all the important work on terminal server, so if your amiga crashes you can just login and continue, you say you are managing servers so I guess you are already used to that (VNC,RDP).

I personally I use my Windows7 PC to run skype and play MP3?s while I?m writing programs on my Amiga, I use KWM switch between my Amiga and PC.

@LiveForIt

While that might be a stopgap solution I don't think having to use another OS because OS4 isn't up to it was the point DaveP was trying to make.

Quick, go to 64 bit before this happens to Amiga users:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2010/6/21/131516/891

@Anonymous

Quote:
and

@Troels


Quote:

The dev list is quite lengthy, but many had been inactive for quite some time.
You might recall a few threads in the past by one of them who eventually made his work available for OS4.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5176

A few of them still hang around in amiga irc as well.

#6

@number6
Was that AA2 application or just for the original AmigaDE/anywhere?
My thought was that no one ever got to use AA2 and it wasn't finished but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm sure that whoever developed application for Amiga Inc. must have given up on that a long time ago.

@Troels

Quote:

Good question. The example I gave was an application, but I never thought to ask about all the names on the list, sorry. If I can get you an answer, I'll post it here.

#6

Quote:

The 6127 is a nice deskjet! On your home network it can server as printer for your Amiga(s), Windows, Linux, and Mac machine.

The network device that replaces PAR: and is used by PRT: is the LPR.device originally written by Olaf Bartel, OS4 version by Stephan Rupprecht.
Very good directions for OS4. Still working fine with every update.

No SMB needed, but no interference with it either.

It resides in OS4Depot at:
http://os4depot.net/index.php?functio ... utility/print/lpr_dev.lha

I've been using the HP_DeskJet 895C (that comes with OS4), but am anxious to try the photosmart driver you mention.

Tom

@Anonymous

I dont believe 64bit means a lot. On Win7 64-bit there are just few native 64 bit apps, and I dont see much difference in their speed,compared to their 32bit versions.

- DRIVERS:

Now when OS is chipset independent, more PCI, PCI-E cards and US add-ons should work on it. For example, Printers are now outdated to old DeskJets, as well as wireless net card is limited to unavail Prism2 model.

- SOFTWARE:

More advanced Timberwolf, and OpenOffice is a Must.
No softaware, no reason to buy

- As a wait until OO comes to OS4, a Firefox and OO on PPC Linux is a default must have

- MULTIUSER

What is the problem to make a log on, password protected screen at the end of boot, and save workbench, drawer and icon position and settings to some folder

- LOGIC:

Some default Work, Game and App folders, like existing in other OSs should be introduced

- OPTIMIZATION

Yes, better optimization for EP440, EP460 and whatever X1000 CPU should be intrioduced. My guess is that difference amongst all sold versions of OS 4.x is just in drivers supporting certain board.