Porting more interesting stuff

Why bother with closed minded MUI when there's Zune, which AROS uses? Is there really no native port of Zune for OS4? I mean, there is for OS3.

@kas1e

Quote:No idea, and I don't care at all. You have to ask Stefan Stuntz why he doesn't port it to AmigaOS.

@kas1e

#39 reply
...having mui4 + reaction on aos4, will give us more freedom to do ports and code between all platforms, in compare with having only reaction).

The User Interface has been 'the issue' and weakness of the Amiga platform since the beginning of time. Commodore-Amiga really never did anything until Stefen Stunz came along with MUI. Now the problem began: it's third party vendor issues. Let me guess, he got 'stiffed' by Commodore-Amiga, and again with Genesy over the Magical User Interface.

...freedom to do ports and code between all platforms
That's a load of crap from two perspectives: if I wrote serious software for Amiga and i don't want it ported to everywhere. If no one wants to buy it then good, live without it . The other issue of ports is the poor user interface. Some of the Unix to Amiga translations/con-figs of the past were really bad. Why the need of a universal user interface? Isn't part of copyright the custom interface? I thought you already 'GNU' <knew> that!

I would like to hear Hyperion's official view on this User Interface issue; it's the main key to all the Amiga software. UIs, Ported programs, and Internet browsers have turned me off to the Amiga over the last seven years: 2003 to 2010. The AmigaONE was my first Amiga computer I bought brand new and wasn't what I expected. I'm not going to go negative here, my A1-XE/G4 runs fine and Amiga OS4.1.2 is great. It's the software to the rest of the world that needs a face lift. Or, should i say user interface lift!

@ChrisH

I can answer the MUI4 question.
I know than Stefan Stuntz just didn't care about it.
At some time he didn't even reply to emails anymore so asking for the permission was not easy.

@Elwood
I guess the question then is *why* Stefan doesn't care about it. Unless I am mistaken, he at least seems to care about it on MOS?

@ChrisH

Hmm. Two interesting, but not really new, links:

http://www.sasg.com/mui/mui-mos-statement.txt

http://zapek.com/?page_id=60

@cha05e90


folowing your link

why MUI not for AOS4 and AOS3 as shareware ??? (Just MorphOS problem only)

@Mrodfr

Yep. That's the question.

I would have no problem to use a full featured (user wise) MUI4 with my MorphOS2.5 and have a usual non-full-featured MUI4 on my OS3.9 and OS4.1 machines.
I suppose it would even generate a (tiny) income for Stuntzi - but nobody knows...

BTW: I would like to have an updated Reaction/OS4- AWNPipe, pleeeeease.....

@Joerg

Maybe, I'm wrong but your comments with respect to MUI sound so negative. Is this because you dislike MUI in general (its concepts, features, etc.) or is it due to arguments with the author/MUI-community?

I actually don't know what's the problem with MUI or Reaction, but from my distant view, it sounds always to be a good idea to have alternatives. Can't it only be a good thing to get more applications for our OS -- either from programmers who prefer MUI or prefer Reaction?

I'm just curious why you think that MUI should not be available for AOS4.

If I'm wrong with my assumption, then I'm sorry! I don't want to offend you. It's just that it sounds this way.

regards,
nexus

@nexus

Quote:
He never said that MUI shouldn't be available for OS4, you are reading him plain wrong!

Joerg just said he doesn't care anymore, and I perfectly understand that. It is solely upon the author of MUI to decide for or against an OS4 version of MUI4. There are surely no constraints on the part of the OS4 dev team but, at the same time, they have neither a reason nor resources to pay for the port.

If someone wants MUI4 for OS4:

- ask Stefan Stuntz if he would accept bounty money for the port
- get him an OS4-capable machine
- setup a bounty to finance the port

There is really no other way.

@trixie

Okay, as I said, I might be wrong but to me, it sounded the way that Joerg thinks it isn't a good idea to have MUI on AOS4 (because of the negative comments about MUI and due to the comment about IBrowse/MUI).

I just wondered if it was indeed a bad idea to have MUI on AOS4 from a developer perspective and if so, why?

I apologize if I read/interpreted Joerg's comments wrong.
I don't want to offend anybody but just wanted to
understand the issue about MUI/Reaction.

Sorry,
nexus

@cha05e90
Thanks for the link. So unless the situation has changed since 2005, it appears that I some on the MorphOS dev team are against Stefan releasing MUI4 for OS3 & OS4, and he doesn't want to upset them so he doesn't do it.

For the lazy, I quote the relevant part, with bold of the most important part:
Quote:

So I guess the next question is who on the MorphOS dev team is against it. All of them, or just a few?

@Fab
The above doesn't seem to tally with your previous comment...

http://www.sasg.com/mui/mui-mos-statement.txt
"My offer then (back in May 2004) was to give MUI4 (and future versions) to Genesi for free (with all features enabled, as always on MorphOS) and at the same time release MUI4 for classic Amigas and OS4 as shareware update i also thought that a unified MUI4 would benefit everyone. the offer was denied back then and is still being denied right now."

I do not understand. Who is denying?
Genesi?
Ralph S.?
MOS-Team?
His wife?

...
"there's nothing legally binding that
could prevent a joint classic/MOS/OS4 release, i just wanted to do things in
agreement with the remaining morphos-team. doesnt look as if it's happening now
after the recent public rants,"

Oh, it's MOS-team who are against "common Amiga"...

@KimmoK
Quote:
I think all morphos-team, except maybe few (Fab and someone else). I ask few weeks ago, from one mos-developer about giving me sources of some morphos-only app, which are cool to have on aos4 , and he say "i want, but i cant, because mos-team will fuck my head, and i will loose all my priveleges".

@kas1e

As always: There are *certain* members of the MorphOS-Team who are - hmmm - very keen NOT to support anything that is related to OS4.x. It's pure politics. I suppose we can't do anything about this except -> porting Zune? (like Kolla already suggested)

@cha05e90
Imho Zune very buggy (that say not only i, but some other developers who trying to port from AROS to aos4 and to MOS). I think for aos4 users imho only MUI4 make real sense (because of OWB:) ). I for example do not know any Zune-only based programm, which are very good. But i can be wrong of course. For example LunaPaint (aros-native paint program) , which works fine on AROS, absolutly buggy on aos4 and morphos, and that is because MUI coding of LunaPaint, which are very wrong in general, and done like that, just to be working in Zune. What mean that Zune have many these wrong hacks/features, which does not works on aos4/mos as should.

@kas1e

And not only OWB-MUI, there's some good soft running on MUI4

But the most important is surely OWB altrought with some modification one can ported it on MUI 3.9 too ...

@Elwood

So, is a port of Firefox not worth a mention in your list ?

@ChrisH

This statement is 5 years old, as you noticed, so many things changed too. Anyway, it's still up to stuntzi to answer about this. The problem is stuntzi is on bike trips most of the time, so good luck to get an answer from him. :)
It has also to be noted MUI4 isn't only developped by stuntzi these days, which makes the situation more complex too (though i don't know what the license says about this).

This is obviously a difficult topic. MUI4 has become one of the key technologies of MorphOS, part of its identity, and its current incarnation uses lots of MorphOS specific features too (whether it was made conditionally or not, so that a "68k" build is still possible, i don't know). So it's not really likely that such a technology is given just like that. Besides, what answer do you think MorphOS users would receive if they asked for OS4 Reaction (or anything else) port? I suspect that would be a no, without further explanation. :)

That being said, I agree it would surely be a good thing to have some of the MUI4 new classes and methods available to other OSes for easier ports. The new classes/methods just make it easier. So maybe the easiest solution would be to implement some of the most commonly used extensions, like list or tab objects, text/picture alpha extensions and a couple others (there are really many more enhancements, but not all are that often used in current 3rd party applications).

@tfrieden

Quote:

Or Blender, for the matter.