After reading and seeing all the effort Hans de Ruiter puts into attracting new devs and users, I decided to forget my previous failures and learn to program.
So a "couple" of questions. First, which editors and IDEs would you suggest to learn? If possible, I don't want to test and try all the editors available, I prefer to "choose the right one right away" and invest the time in learning the programming language instead.
Mind that I have to start from scratch with C or C++.
1. CubicIDE:I do own the latest released CD (as far as I know) however I could find some updates on the developer's website. But read here on the forum that there seemstso are be an issue about installing / integrating it with the latest SDK.
2- Codebench: I could not find any pricing information on the website, only the download link to the demo versions, but I would like to buy the full version. For one to support the developer, and second because I would like to have it run natively with all the bells and whistles for OS4.
3. Use VIM or LiteXL: VIM feels really alien to me, the keyboard shortcuts, the menus, and even though I read a little about it on the www, I can't see the (maybe obvious for real developers) advantages in using it. From my knowledge standpoint, the editor is used to typing, copying, pasting.. Maybe it would be an advantage when using it on different OSs, but I will probably never program anything on Windows. I might however try XCode on macOS. I am sure I will never be able to like Windows in this life. I tried, many times, even with force, but no thanks.
4. any other suggestion?
I really would like syntax highlighting. I think it might be helpful. Ideally I would love ARexx and AmigaDOS highlighting too, I'm not sure Codebench can do it.
About learning material: I have come into possession of many old, very old Amiga C books, I guess they are all from the 1.3 era. Does it make sense to read them? I read a little and found them confusing, also with errors. I have 3 version of the same book, and some parts are different in each one of them. Some parts I can tell are right in the first version but miscorrected in later version. So I suppose it will be more puzzle work to understand the books than really learning, I fear it will confuse and frustrate me a lot. And I guess all the devs here are of such advanced level and skill, they would get super bored or annoyed when someone ask really silly questions (in their eyes)
5. So is there any suggestion on what book to buy? A DuckDuckGo search come with a plethora of suggestions. Can't try them all, and I guess very little in the books can be used for AmigaOS4.
6. Would it make sense to buy all past AmigaFuture editions that have Amiga example code in it?
I would like to learn to design and program a GUI too. I know Hans strongly suggest to learn MUI, but for whatever fanboy-gremlin crawls in me, I like the look and feel of Reaction so much better. Since always. As far as I understood AmigaKit is expanding the Reaction Classes. I'l like to read @kas1e opinion about this specifically, because I read something here on amigans, but I can't find the thread anymore.
I'm looking forward to read your suggestions sorry for the lengthy post any probably many typos, I'm in a hurry. and can't re-read this again right now.
Nice to see that my efforts are having some kind of impact.
Regarding Amiga native IDEs, I switched from CubicIDE to CodeBench when CodeBench became advanced enough. There's also Advanced Visual Developer, although I'm unsure what its current status is. I know it's still in pre-release, but you'd have to check with Jamie as to how usable it is.
These days I use VS Code on my PC, and use ZitaFTP Server to copy the files to an Amiga for testing (as per my videos). It's faster for me, and no crashing problems. The last time I used CodeBench, it could still crash, and my RadeonHD/RX projects took a long time to load (they have a lot of files).
I haven't yet had a chance to try out LiteXL, which does look useful.
Codebench has an AREXX plugin, so it might have AREXX code highlighting.
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About learning material: I have come into possession of many old, very old Amiga C books, I guess they are all from the 1.3 era. Does it make sense to read them? I read a little and found them confusing, also with errors. I have 3 version of the same book, and some parts are different in each one of them. Some parts I can tell are right in the first version but miscorrected in later version. So I suppose it will be more puzzle work to understand the books than really learning, I fear it will confuse and frustrate me a lot. And I guess all the devs here are of such advanced level and skill, they would get super bored or annoyed when someone ask really silly questions (in their eyes)
The really old docs might not be the best. IIRC, some might even have old style C. The most recent ROM Kernel Manuals are still useful, as is the AmigaOS Developer Wiki.
However, I don't know of any good beginner tutorials that are up-to-date. The ones in Amiga Future are worth looking at, if you can get your hands on them.
There's also PJ Hutchison's tutorial series which you can find here. If you follow his, then I recommend you build everything with __USE_INLINE__ defined, so you can use AmigaOS 3 style library calls. Otherwise you have to use the interface pointers (e.g., IExec->OpenLibrary() instead of OpenLibrary()).
You could also start with a generic C/C++ book. Code that uses just the C/C++ standard libraries should work just fine on AmigaOS. You won't be doing any GUI/graphics stuff with those books, but it's good for learning C/C++.
Mind that I have to start from scratch with C or C++.
But you feel reasonably comfortable with other languages, even if that's just ARexx? If no, then you might want to start slow with something simpler like that or Python, to get the basics. I believe many high schools today teach Python.
Instead of taking a formal approach, you could ask yourself what you'd eventually like to code, and then look for a similar project on OS4 Depot that includes the source. Pour through that, using the books and online resources as references.
Myself, I'm in a similar boat, so your thread about IDE's is timely. I've coded in a number of scripting languages plus some work in Java, but coding for a specific operating system, especially Amiga, feels a little daunting. I hope to start figuring it out by perhaps the end of the year using an "all of the above" approach.
Codebench has an AREXX plugin, so it might have AREXX code highlighting.
Yes, it does.And thanks for the PR :)
Simon
Comments made in any post are personal opinion, and are in no-way representative of any commercial entity unless specifically stated as such. ---- http://codebench.co.uk
If you're new to C, I'd recommend a book that aims at real beginners, like this one - when I started learning C, I found it much more useful than Kernighan and Ritchie's classic book.
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I have come into possession of many old, very old Amiga C books, I guess they are all from the 1.3 era. Does it make sense to read them?
I would stay away from old Amiga programming books because a lot of things have changed: you could easily grab the wrong end of the stick. The Amiga Developer Wiki and the Autodocs that come with the lastest OS4 SDK are currently the best and most up-to-date reference. The wiki articles have many examples showing you how to do things.
When it comes to IDEs, I graduated from CubicIDE to CodeBench, which I still prefer to use. However, its text editor is really sluggish in the latest version on my X5000 (I hear it works fine on the X1000; don't know about other systems), so I have to use an older version of CodeBench (0.42SE).
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I would like to learn to design and program a GUI too. I know Hans strongly suggest to learn MUI, but for whatever fanboy-gremlin crawls in me, I like the look and feel of Reaction so much better.
As for GUI programming, I absolutely understand why Hans recommended MUI - on top of being very comprehensive, it will allow you to develop multi-plaform projects and reach a wider audience with your software. However, I personally prefer ReAction, as it's easy to use and I don't really care about OS3.x, MorphOS and AROS. There are plenty of examples how to program ReAction in the SDK. Also make sure you read my tutorial I wrote for OS4coding.net, which explains some basic concepts and shows good practice in ReAction GUI programming.
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As far as I understood AmigaKit is expanding the Reaction Classes.
I used to work on these, so I think I can give you relevant info. The Enhancer Pack indeed comes with a set of classes that - and I don't mean it in a bad way - are a mixed bag of sorts. It contains some new classes that OS4 doesn't have, or improves upon certain existing ones, but some of them are just duplicates of what we already have. Using the Enhancer classes comes with the disadvantage that your users need to either own Enhancer, or install the free Enhancer Software Core, which requires registration. Luckily, latest A-EON hardware should already have Enhancer installed when you buy a complete system. This being said, it's up to you to decide whether the Enhancer classes bring enough benefit to potentially create extra hassle for your users, but the fact that very few OS4 programmers have so far adopted Enhancer classes in their projects speaks volumes. I would personally stick with the standard classes that come with OS4 - at least until you learn how to use them and decide whether they do the job for you or not.
And once you are ready to get some Amiga specific stuff going, I'd recommend Jamie Krueger's SDK browser. It makes it a lot easier to find the right info and is a great tool for learning
Thank you! I will follow the links you posted and read through the information. I will follow Trixie's advice and have ordered the "Dummies C Tutorial".
Also I'm an observer in the KeaSigmaDelta Club. Just observer atm, since there is already so much to read. I might upgrade next month or in January.
I dabbed with ARexx here and there. I'll look into python too, but it is not so useful on amiga I guess. The available version is far behind as far as I understand. v2.x. I tried some scripts but whilst they worked right away on macOS they didn't want on AmigaOS.
My idea is to star with some simple utilities and move forward. I have an idea for a game since a long time. Let's see if I'll be able to get there.
It's a good idea, I read about it here in the forums already and I was tempted to try. Actually I might try for learning purposes, but..
..But to tell you the truth, I think that even if it won't make a difference in the grand scheme of things if I don't use it, I'd rather refrain to use AI. I can't make up my mind if it is going to be a good thing. I'm ignoring all the big chatter about an "AI that will become sentient and destroy us all", but I see so much silly content and disinformation created by people misusing A.I. So I'd rather not give it "energy" by using it too. It's tempting though. triplicate productivity and income until the boom lasts..
Thank you very much for all the info! very appreciated! I ordered the book you suggested. There is another one, which contains 6 books plus the one you suggested. Do you think it is worth it? However as it seems it is an older print.
There is another one, which contains 6 books plus the one you suggested. Do you think it is worth it? However as it seems it is an older print.
"C Programming for Dummies" (the book I suggested) is newer than "C for Dummies, 2nd ed." As for the 6-in-1 reference book, I haven't read it but I have no doubt it will be useful.
I'd like to use Codebench due it's confortable IDE but on my system is really slow and too much prone to crash. I'm still waiting for a new free/developer/commercial release.
As code editor I'd like to use LiteXL but I have to admit I have not understand how to use it.. I'd like to have menus to load/save files and all other stuff found in other common text editors. LiteXL sadly it's not comfortable for my use, maybe I have to give it a second try after reading docs (?!?)
..So I use Annotate to write code and IMHO until now it's by far the best editor for Amigaos4. I wonder how to bypass a requester asking for datatype.library v44 everytime I use a custom screen..
To compile code I just use GCC commandline or makefile in a shell. Anyway I'm always looking for valid alternatives..
On MOS we have FLowstudio and it's years ahead any OS4 software and for me it's the best solution possible.
I like Annotate too, I tried to teach it the syntax for ARexx but I didn't succeed. There is a script to convert VIM syntax files to Annotate, but I could not make it work.
@Tuvok Make sure to have a read at the Blog section of https://www.os4coding.net/blog as there is some good information. But the main sources that helped me are the wiki.amigaos.net that others mentioned, and the SDK Autodocs that describe the AmigaOS API.
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